Beginner's advice needed

That Azimut will cost you a round $3000 per month just on payments, dockage and insurance. Now you need to to maintenance, repairs, upgrades and feed those hunger boys in the engine room (ps they burn around 2 gallons per mile). That number is taking into account that you want to keep your boat in the Carolina's, I am in Miami and dockage is higher here and so is the insurance.

Cor
 
My personal opinion would be to look at Trawlers. I would love to live on my boat full time and short of not having the proper heating system and a washer dryer combo my wife and I could live full time on the boat we have. However my next real boat will be a trawler with small diesels. The cost of moving my boat from NJ to NC twice a year just isn't worth it. The other problem is my wife likes spending the 3.5-5days a week we spend on the boat but at this point in her life isn't interested in not being able to put her feet on the terra firma for a few days a week.
Bill
 
If the Azimut surveys out OK and you can get it at the right price, (with corrections) you will NEVER be sorry. The 3208 Cats if under 375 HP are my favorite engines.
 
It is a nice looking boat. The 3208NA's are a very reliable engine.
Bill
 
I would suggest you charter some boats first. Look for a charter Company that also has classes. In the San Francisco Bay area their is a place called Club Nautique. They charter boats of varying sizes and also offer classes. See if you can find a similar company near where you expect to boat. The advantage of that is during the training you will get experience in the waters you will navigate from an experienced captain. You can also try different boats to see how they are different in real operating environments. The classes are pretty reasonable and should cover safe operation, navigation and mechanical systems. This should also allow you to get insurance for the boat. If you haven't owned a boat of similar size in the past you won't be able to operate the boat yourself with pretty much any insurance company. You will also find out how you might use the boat on an ongoing basis. You should also look into where you can find moorage for the size of boat you want. The captains that provide instruction in the charter program should be able to give you alot of thoughts on the different marinas.

Charter first to make sure you like it. Make sure you spend some nights on the boat. Once you buy a boat there is no inexpensive way out.

Good luck with your journey.
 
Midship, you have not told us anything about yourself.

Are you a mechanically inclined person? Do you have amy familiarity with engines wether or not diesel?

Where do you currently reside? If you now live around coastal SC you could look for some experienced Captain that could assist you with the purchase and be your instructor as you learn the boat and boating skills. How much you can use an experienced person like this depends upon your budget.

There are many, many boats out there that could fit the very limited criteria that you gave. Certainly the Azimut would be a good one. A trawler as BillIII suggested would certainly be something I would consider.

It all goes to your budget. How much front money do you want to put up and how much monthly?

George
 
quote:
Originally posted by kgd

I would suggest you charter some boats first. Look for a charter Company that also has classes. In the San Francisco Bay area their is a place called Club Nautique. They charter boats of varying sizes and also offer classes. See if you can find a similar company near where you expect to boat. The advantage of that is during the training you will get experience in the waters you will navigate from an experienced captain. You can also try different boats to see how they are different in real operating environments. The classes are pretty reasonable and should cover safe operation, navigation and mechanical systems. This should also allow you to get insurance for the boat. If you haven't owned a boat of similar size in the past you won't be able to operate the boat yourself with pretty much any insurance company. You will also find out how you might use the boat on an ongoing basis. You should also look into where you can find moorage for the size of boat you want. The captains that provide instruction in the charter program should be able to give you alot of thoughts on the different marinas.

Charter first to make sure you like it. Make sure you spend some nights on the boat. Once you buy a boat there is no inexpensive way out.

Good luck with your journey.

Click to expand...


I heartily endorse this approach. We had boated off and on our whole lives. Even owned a 32 foot Tollycraft for awhile in Seattle. Club Nautique offered a big fleet of differetn sized boats to rent, but you had to take a series of classes to qualify for the various sizes of boats and whether they would let you go out on the ocean. This is the best money I have ever spent on boating. I was surprised how much I "didn't know what I didn't know".

There are several places in Florida that offer this training; Chapman's and SeaSense come to mind as examples. Definitely start with your local power squadron to meet other boaters and get oriented to the realities of boat ownership.

Once you have taken several on-the-water courses, charter a variety of boats. Again, there are many places on the east coast to do this. This will orient you to what ergonomic issues suit you, in handling, maintaining, and living on the boat. Too many people buy their first boats purely on the last one, and even then without having spent time living on a boat.

I highly recommend David Pascoe's "Mid sized Power Boats", which addresses the ergonomic, structural and maintenance issues in the most realistic fashion I have seen. This is the best $70 you will spend in your search, especially the first 3/4 of the book.

None of us can tell you what boat is right for you. One of the best-taken truisms in boating is "Buy the smallest boat you can be comfortable on, not the biggest boat you can afford". But "comfort" means different things to different people for different uses. You have to determine that for yourself through experience and thoughtfulness.

Lastly, do not ever think that buying a boat is a cheaper way to buy a residence than a land-based home. Maintaing and keeping a boat in sound condition is many times more expensive, even more so if you are not capable of doing the work yourself in a first class manner.

George
Hatteras 56MY (Live and cruised aboard full time with wife)
Boston Whaler 130 Sport
 
George homes are not without maintenance, especially homes on the water. If your not mechanically inclined I could use the same arguement for renting instead of owning a home.
I would like to know more about the member's life situation.
Where is that old thread that Dave posted about adding up all the money he spent on his 44 Trojan and looking at it from his financial prespective it was a dead losser, but he couldn't trade the fun for the money he spent? Lots of RO's ommented in that thread it was near the end of last season.
Bill
 
Just noticed the boat is in California. It will cost you about $30,000 to have it transported to the east coast, something to take in account!
 
Bill:
I wish I could convince you that the size of diesels has very little influence on fuel consuption. Consumption is largly based on speed. Same boat, same weight, same fuel use at same speed.
 
Bill, I have owned some fairly large and older homes, and live aboard a fairly large boat of a very high quality builder, which I use a lot. I know and have met many others like me. So, I feel confident I know whereof I speak. The boat is in a much harsher setting, that is, salt water and typically more exposed to wind. Even if your only goal is to keep it as a dock queen, the maintenance is not inconsequential; and a boat will get away from you condition-wise, if not maintained, much faster than a house. My point was, living aboard a decent sized boat is not going to be less expensive than a house of about the same value. You see one derelict after another that was bought with that false premise.

A boat has to be bought for non-financial reasons. For many of us, there really isn't a price that can be tagged to the reasons we boat.

Bruce is right, BTW. In general it takes X amount of fuel to produce Y amount of power in a given diesel engine type, to move a given boat Z speed. Savings from a smaller engine are mostly due to the reduction in weight and lower entry cost.
 
+1
The only live aboards I have seen that are cheaper than renting or buying a house are boats that would not run.
 
Subscribe to SOUNDINGS; it's a good mag. with many boats for sale and covers current 'BOAT STORIES,' as well. Talk to boaters; that's one of our favorite subjects. I lived aboard my 40 ft. Chris Craft before I got married; it was a good choice for me: 2 staterooms, and salon; dual stations. There are also certain tax breaks, and others as compared to owning real estate.
 
quote:
Originally posted by kgd

I would suggest you charter some boats first.
Click to expand...


I'm going to +2 this comment. Very little investment for a ton of experience and a vacation to boot.
 
quote:
Originally posted by OLD HOUSEBOATER

If the Azimut surveys out OK and you can get it at the right price, (with corrections) you will NEVER be sorry. The 3208 Cats if under 375 HP are my favorite engines.

Click to expand...


I beg to differ. I would stay away from Azimuts.

And I would be very careful about buying a boat from National. Especially as a first time buyer.

As live aboards, with today's fuel prices, I'd look at trawlers and catamaran sailboats first.

After you learn a whole lot more about what you are looking for and at. As others have suggested, charter first. And I would add, several times.
 
Midshiman,

I'm in my first boat and have had it 4 years. It's a Sea Ray Sedan Bridge at 42.5' LOA (that's the bragging number). When reserving a slip, it's only 37'. This boat is big for a first boat so I hired a Captain to deliver it to my slip and go over the basics with me. The next day I took it out for 5 hours of practice. The rest of my knowledge came from this website, using the boat and hard knocks. We're now quickly approaching 6,000 miles under the hull.

I surfed BoaterEd for a long time (almost an entire year) and asked tons of questions. There are plenty of Salty Dogs here with boats of every type to guide you no matter what boat you choose. The folks I rely on a lot, even though they may not be aware, are PASCAL, pdecat, and Billylll. (I stalk them!)

As I narrowed my choices I had to take a look at my own mechanical abilities, the depth of my wallet and my desire to learn. Fortunately I had plenty of each and dove in head first.

In the end, I spent far more than I planned (4x) in renovating the boat and a vulgar amount in fuel and maintenance. The truth for me is that 1) I would have chose the same boat 2) I wish I had done it sooner and 3)I would have spent more.

Good luck in your search. Note that there are also plenty of live aboard type websites and the cruising websites also have plenty of data for living aboard.
 
Midshipman,

Just last night I read an article in the May 2011 issue of MotorBoating, that visited National and wrote about their operation. It was a pretty good article about buying a boat from National, and made a lot of interesting observations. You should certainly read that article.

When I retire we will buy a bigger boat and cruise the Great Loop and the islands as live-aboards. So we have started looking at trawlers, and talking to a lot of people who own them. I couldn't get used to 8 knots max speed, so we only looked at fast trawlers. We learned a few interesting things. We both like to sit up in bed and read, and found that many of the trawlers had surprisingly low headroom in the main berths. One woman told us that her trawler with the main berth forward was very noisy with wave action in rough weather at anchor. Someone with a aft stateroom with the head of the bed facing the stern told us that it was not comfortable at anchor because the wave would cause the bow to rise and lower so they felt like their head was always low.

The boat we finally decided would be a good fit for us is the Regal 52 Sport Coupe. We actually got a chance to test drive it with one of the design engineers. Fuel economy is way ahead of anything else in its class. The main bed faces aft, so your head will be higher than in the rear facing beds. Plenty of reading room. Handling was kid simple with the joystick. It's a perfect fit for us because it matches what we want to do with boating.

Matching what you want to do is probably the most important consideration.

Good luck.
 
Those must have been some very small or poorly designed trawlers. We chartered a number of Grand Banks 46 and 49 foot aft cabin trawlers and never experienced that head down issue or anything close to it. The Mainship 43 aft cabin we used many times had the bed athwartship and again it was very comfortable. Our current boat also has the aft cabin master and is supremely comfortable. In all case we anchor(ed) out overnight extensively i all sorts of conditions. We do prefer aft cabin or mid-ship cabin for quiet and smoothness. The bow slap noise and tucked-into-the-prow aspects of forward berths are not comfortable to us, not even on the beautiful Fleming 55. But all of those considerations are very personal choices. While we love our boat and have no doubt we made the right choice (for us) from the beginning, I am not about to say that it is the best choice for everyone, even those who will use it and live on it as we do.

I cannot over emphasize how valuable all those weeks of chartering were. There is no substitute for operating a boat for several consecutive days, anchoring out, picking up moorings, docking in different conditions, cooking, eating, sleeping. We had very clear ideas of what we wanted in design and ergonomics, the latter my #1 issue in picking out a boat. Not the least is how easy it is to maintain and repair. One old boating truism is "The definition of 'cruising' is: fixing your boat in exotic places." We are anchored out this week. I just got done having to tweak something on my generator system, which if not addressed would have aborted our vacation. The fact that our generator sits in its own, spacious room and is completely easy and accessible to work on was absolutely priceless. I have been on many boats where that chore would have been almost physically impossible for me.

George
Hatteras 56MY (currently anchored in Cape Lookout Bight, NC)
Boston Whaler 130 Sport
 
quote:
Originally posted by caltexfla

Those must have been some very small or poorly designed trawlers. We chartered a number of Grand Banks 46 and 49 foot aft cabin trawlers and never experienced that head down issue or anything close to it. The Mainship 43 aft cabin we used many times had the bed athwartship and again it was very comfortable. Our current boat also has the aft cabin master and is supremely comfortable. In all case we anchor(ed) out overnight extensively i all sorts of conditions. We do prefer aft cabin or mid-ship cabin for quiet and smoothness. The bow slap noise and tucked-into-the-prow aspects of forward berths are not comfortable to us, not even on the beautiful Fleming 55. But all of those considerations are very personal choices. While we love our boat and have no doubt we made the right choice (for us) from the beginning, I am not about to say that it is the best choice for everyone, even those who will use it and live on it as we do.

I cannot over emphasize how valuable all those weeks of chartering were. There is no substitute for operating a boat for several consecutive days, anchoring out, picking up moorings, docking in different conditions, cooking, eating, sleeping. We had very clear ideas of what we wanted in design and ergonomics, the latter my #1 issue in picking out a boat. Not the least is how easy it is to maintain and repair. One old boating truism is "The definition of 'cruising' is: fixing your boat in exotic places." We are anchored out this week. I just got done having to tweak something on my generator system, which if not addressed would have aborted our vacation. The fact that our generator sits in its own, spacious room and is completely easy and accessible to work on was absolutely priceless. I have been on many boats where that chore would have been almost physically impossible for me.

George
Hatteras 56MY (currently anchored in Cape Lookout Bight, NC)
Boston Whaler 130 Sport

Click to expand...

+1
Looks like this poster forgot large portions of the Loop and ICW are no wake zones, he seeems fixed on speed more than anything else. Without chartering various boats or at a minimum visiting them at marinas and shows I don't know how say a 52 Regal that will suck your wallet dry burning fuel could even compare to a Nordhavn or a LRC like some of the larger Hatt's?
The wave slap arguement could be made for many boats this isn't fast trawler specific.
A joystick is cool but would be the last item on my list for a great Loop or ICW boat. I would be more interested in the redundent safety issues, heating and cooling systems, sidedeck safety and railing height before a joystick controller or speed.
Bill
 
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