Boat Mfg

When you have trillions of dollars basicly siphoned off the global economy by those responsible for the financial crisis of 2008, you have a lot of money that was fairly well spread out going into a very few hands on a global scale.
It is not suprising to me that the boating industry would be one of the casulties and I don't see a recovery in that market for a very long time.
Of greater concern to me is what type economy will we eventualy end up having in the United States, will our middle class ever recover enough to support those expensive recreational boats let alone the $250,000 and up cruisers?
Looks to me like the boating community will shrink considerably and those that remain active boaters will be using much depreciated used boats and not new.
 
quote:
Originally posted by mintregila

IMHO

Fast and loose credit fueled the expansion of boating and supported an over-supply of manufacturers selling similar models to the same group. Just like easy credit allowed people to buy houses they could not afford, the same is true for boats. People need houses. Sure they can rent but housing is a necessity. Boats are not. First to go was the over abundance of models (just like the auto industry). Now the prolonged economic slump is taking out the primary manufacturers.

I think the industry has a future but built on a different model. The days of walking into a showroom or a boat show, signing some papers and picking up your boat from the delivery center the following week are over. Other than small boats, nobody is going to be building for inventory. You want a boat, you put down a deposit and they build it. You pick it up next spring.

All that said, I hope Silverton and Luhrs find a way to survive in some fashion.

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BINGO

Pascal,
Comparing a car to a boat is like comparing a skateboard to a car. In other words, not a fair comparison. A skateboard has 4 or 5 components, a car has hundreds, a boat has thousands. I do agree with the most of your post though.

Kida,
Although I see your point, the consumer did not dictate this so therefore it would be silly to change, change costs money, if the consumer is not barking for this change, why change?
Also, with a boat like Mixman you lose real estate, Americans like big space, think SUV :)
 
For many people, buying a good used boat makes more financial sense than buying new. That is especially true where the boating season is less than 6 months and irregardless of the size of the boat. Someone buying a new 20' can easily spend $8000 or more a year and only use it 10-20 times a year meaning it cost them between $400-800 for each use. Those buying a new 38' will dish out $40,000 or more a year to own it and if they get out 20 weekends a year their cost is $2000 per weekend. Eventually, people figure this out look for alternative ways to spend their money.
 
"Those buying a new 38' will dish out $40,000 or more a year to own it and if they get out 20 weekends a year their cost is $2000 per weekend"

You re kidding, right? The average 38 footer cost about 400k... 10% depreciation a year (average over 3 years), 5% Interest, dockage, insurance, fuel, maintenance.. etc and you re at 100k a year, not 40!!!

Walter, yes a boat may have more components but why can't builders test them before delivery instead of having owners bring them
Back again and again to fix things?
 
quote:
Originally posted by PascalG
You re kidding, right? The average 38 footer cost about 400k... 10% depreciation a year (average over 3 years), 5% Interest, dockage, insurance, fuel, maintenance.. etc and you re at 100k a year, not 40!!!

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You don't pay depreciation as an annual cost. If you do, who are you paying it to? While I agree it's something to consider, it's not something a check is written monthly for.
 
Well, you buy a boat for 400k then sell it 2 years later for 300k... Are you telling me it didnt cost you 50k a year?
 
Sorry to hear this. My only direct experience with their products has been with a wide variety of Mainships and a few Hunters. I always though they were fairly simple, honest boats that showed a little thought was put into the design. Many fond memories of cruises throughout Northern California (mostly SF Bay and the Delta) on those Mainships. I understand from other forums that the Luhrs brand had big, some say disastrous quality issues on a few models.

While the liberals (surprise!) approach the issue for the most part wrong headedly, there are real implications of the widening wealth gap in this country and much of the rest of the world. Mega yacht sales are doing just fine, and new records are being set at art auctions again (one of four versions of "The Scream" went for a record $120 million last night, $40 million over estimate). It's very difficult to destroy an American middle and upper middle class and then create it again. Why should you? You can now source that work easily overseas to people with much lower economic expectations. There just isn't much need for a corporately created middle class anymore. And thereby brands that cater to that increasingly extinct group of people are themselves becoming extinct. Properly nurtured entrepreneurs will only be able to fill some of the void, because most people aren't wired to be entrepreneurs.
 
quote:
Originally posted by PascalG

Well, you buy a boat for 400k then sell it 2 years later for 300k... Are you telling me it didnt cost you 50k a year?

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+1

Depreciation is a VERY real expense, whether or not you "write a check for it every month"
 
George you are spot on. I will add if the boat is built overseas they don't have the environmental rules for a production plant or OSHA to comply with (think SE Asia).
Bill
 
quote:
Originally posted by Pa Mikee

quote:
Originally posted by PascalG
You re kidding, right? The average 38 footer cost about 400k... 10% depreciation a year (average over 3 years), 5% Interest, dockage, insurance, fuel, maintenance.. etc and you re at 100k a year, not 40!!!

Click to expand...

You don't pay depreciation as an annual cost. If you do, who are you paying it to? While I agree it's something to consider, it's not something a check is written monthly for.

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You absolutely pay depreciation as an annual cost. You pay it to yourself. Just like Pascal mentioned, when you sell two years later and take a loss, who takes the loss?
 
As bill mentionned over regulations isn't helping keeping boat costs down... Remember the article I posted a few days ago about styrene being added on the list of known carcinogens? wait till the effects come in starting with higher insurance costs for builders

And then we have the median family income dropping a record $4500 in the past 3 years.
 
I look at this and it just seems, boat building has always been boom and bust so I'm kind of philosophical about it. Most boats I've owned and when I was young that my Dad owned were made by companies no longer in business. Of course it's tough for people layed off, but LMG cut 60 people when they closed the factory? Even if that reflected declining fortunes already, this does not seem to be an industry that ever employs significant numbers of people in comparison to others.

With the demise of easy credit, there absolutely has to be a contraction like this. The only issue I would take with what Mark posted above about credit is that a boat's not a house, either. Houses don't particularly depreciate, so as tough as it may be for some to get a mortgage, you probably really need to be gold plated to get a boat loan these days. There's no asset.

I don't think this compares to the light aircraft issue, because I don't know that the product liability problem is as severe. That's all I used to read about in Flying et al back in the day before Wichita imploded.

Misplaced in the forum as the government policy comments may be, I really don't go there either. Certainly government can hurt the industry and we've seen that before, but the fact is, there were never a lot of people who could truly afford even $100,000 for a boat much less $500,000 and there is no policy that is going to make that easy. A lot of people got into boating the wrong way, and it's going to take years to soak that up. It is what it is.
 
quote:
Originally posted by walterv
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Kida,
Although I see your point, the consumer did not dictate this so therefore it would be silly to change, change costs money, if the consumer is not barking for this change, why change?
Also, with a boat like Mixman you lose real estate, Americans like big space, think SUV :)

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In days of old when knights were bold and Cadillac's had fins......

I agree change costs money but the alternative is to have your shorts eaten by the competition.

You are correct that we never demanded better, however, neither did customers of Steve Jobs.

Your boating probably calls for the deep V you have on your boat. I believe Saint Max has an 18* deadrise. My boating may require a 14* deadrise and I could still be comfortable in my waters....And be saving fuel in the process.

Is it possible to make a 2 piece hull mold with differing deadrises so you could get more mileage from the same hull waterline up? It's just a farfetched thought. My point is, to me, American boat manufacturers quit trying a long time ago. Could be short term $ goals. I know a lot is government intervention.

I know the potential is there. It would be nice to see the potential return to action.
 
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