Amazing Rogue Wave experience

J

Jim D

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exMember
Joined
Jan 1, 2000
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1989
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210
My house is located on the west side of Barnegat Bay and is directly four miles west of a local anchorage called Tices Shoal. Tices Shoal can have hundreds of boats at anchor on a hot July or August weekend. I have direct line-of-sight from my third floor window to Tices Shoal.

My plan is/was to project a dedicated signal from one of my home network routers (Linksys WRT54G with optional high-gain antenna) directly out from my third floor window and be able to receive the signal at Tices Shoal.
The Rogue Wave is mounted on my cabin hardtop and is 14 feet above the waterline.
I tested the setup today. As I motored east across the bay toward Tices Shoal, I had a strong signal to my home router for the first mile. At about 1.5 miles out, the bars went from green to yellow but I still had a connection. At 2 to 2.5 miles out, I could no longer connect (although the Rogue said I was connected) but it could no longer obtain an IP connection and no internet.
At 3 miles out, I could not pick up my network but I was picking up weak signals from other networks. . Most all had security so I could not connect. One had no security but the signal was so weak I could not connect.
I was bummed out since despite my investment, I still could not get internet access at Tices Shoal.

My question for the experts....

Is there something I can do to beef up the hardware either at the home network end or at the boat end to increase the range of this setup or am I expecting too much from this Rogue Wave?

Thank you.

Jim
 
Bill will be along, but at 4 miles I think you are starting to ask a bit much of the device in your current configuration. I believe they may have a higher powered unit (2 miles is not bad from a Linksys), but that works only for sending. Your home device must also have a very sensitive receiver which I don't know I would accuse the 54G of having. Also, getting connections past that distance is all about the antennae you are using. You have a high gain on your Linksys, but is it an omni? If you want good connection at 4 miles, I'd think a directional patch would be more of the variety, but Bill will be the guy for that aspect. Also, I don't think a 54G is quite the unit you would want. I mean, you invest in a moderate unit to receive, but you also need an equally good unit on the other side of the line.

Personally, I think its a bit early to be throwing the Rogue equipment under the bus. I think you have a wee bit more work to do in your overall setup before you can get what you want.

I'm not quite the be all radio guy, but from my vantage point I still think I see an overall system that is not quite there yet, but could be without bankrupting yourself.
 
I suggest you dump the Linksys even with a gain antenna. It's got a horrible receiver and is a low power AP. I wouldn't blame the ROGUE 4 miles is difficult with the best AP equipment and a ROGUE. I can hit and use my Total Marine Hot Spot from the ICW near the Beach Haven Yacht club. This is basically from about 1/4 mile up the Tuckerton Creek to about 1/2 mile behind BHYC and the ICW.
You need a 1 watt commercial grade access point with a 120 to 180 degree sector antenna as high above the ground as possible. The antenna needs to be outside of the house even a window can attenuate your WiFi signal by 3 to 10db depending on the glass type. If the glass is tinted the numbers could be far worse. Then you need to pick a WiFi channel that has the least amount of interference. Do not use channel 6 (the Linksys default channel). You also haven't mentioned how long and what type of coaxial cable is used to connect the Linksys to your external antenna or the type of external antenna?

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the ROGUE.
The range you are getting with with the current set up at home and the ROGUE is far better than I would have expected.
Bill
 
I saw something else that troubles me you say one of your home routers just how many do you have running and if so are they on different RF channels? If not then you are creating your own RF interference within your home. This would greatly reduce the Linksys ability to communicate over any real distance. Not that they were ever designed to operate over any great distance. I'd change the title to using my Linksys as an access point disappoints me not the ROGUE.
Bill
 
I didn't explain my problem very well. I LOVE MY ROGUE WAVE!! I didn't mean to infer that I was throwing it under the bus or imply that there was something wrong with it. I just want to find out if what I want to do with it is realistic.

The antenna on the home router is a $13 option available on amazon...not a big whup. It replaces the standard antenna, no cable required.
http://www.amazon.com/linksys-Antennas-WRT54GS-WAP54G-BEFW11S4/dp/B008UN3O48

I'm open to upgrading the home router or upgrading the standard antenna on the Rogue if either or both would help. Suggestions?

Thanks again. I really appreciate the advice.

Jim
 
The Linksys and the $13.00 antenna need to be turned off and replaced. You need to find out which WiFi channel from your house has the least amount of active routers from your neighbors. It's called a site survey (download Netstumbler) that will help. You need a commercial grade 1 watt access point and a commercial grade 12 to 15db directional panel antenna. I'd suggest perhaps a Ubiquiti Rocket M2 (MIMO) with the 120 degree 15dbi Airmax commercial grade antenna. The AP marries itself to the back of the MIMO sectorized antenna. It needs to be mounted outside of the house.
If you get a chance to get over to Tuckerton this weekend I could show you what is needed. I'm at Total Marine off Great Bay Blvd.
 
Bill, I have two routers.
1)Netgear N900 that transmits four SSID's (g, g guest, n, n guest)
2) the linksys which is pointed out the window at Tices Shoal.

Thanks for the advice about the channels...I'll check.

Again, my thanks.

Jim
 
Jim, I'm currently in a RUCKUS Wireless WiFi training class in Philadelphia. I will get back to you tonight when I get home.
Bill
 
Bill, thank you for being so generous with your time and your kind invitation.

Jim
 
My Rogue is due in tomorrow I hope to have as good results! I can't wait to try it out.
 
Dave, I hope you can find a hotspot that isn't over-loaded with users streaming God-knows-what.
 
I'm close to Cablevision Hotspots they will be just fine.
 
Comcast has really expanded their hotspot network here in MD over the past year (although Verizon 4G is still much, much more available and useful). I think the CableWiFi.com alliance between Bright House Networks, Cox Communications, Optimum, Time Warner Cable and XFINITY will certainly help the situation. I'm surprised Cablevision isn't involved.
 
Thanks. That explains why NYC shows as almost fully covered for Comcast customers! :-)

(Although I'm still ticked at the little jerk that runs Cablevision for shutting down VOOM - the best satellite service ever!)
 
Kurt we don't seem to have the speed issues in NJ and NY that our southern members report. I will say this distance and signal quality = maximum speed.
So what I am saying is the more distance you put between your boat and an AP means the speed will reduce. It's a function of almost any radio data platform.
Many of the Comcast AP's are actually shared SSID AP's with Optimum and others. I have seen up to 6 shared SSID's on many of the cable APs.
I run a slightly higher grade bridge router not the ROGUE. It is the Wave EC high power 1 watt unit and it has a better receiver specification. However that doesn't mean that I get much better performance then using a ROGUE. I can connect to more AP's with my setup but that doesn't mean they are usable.
When I 1st started doing serious WiFi on Little Egg AP's were far and few between. Now the problem is there are 50 plus AP's many trying to use the same 11 US WiFi channels. I always talk about channel 6 as being unusable that's because most home routers come out of the box programmed for channel 6. For in home use channel 6 is fine. To try and connect to a channel 6 router/ access point at even a mile with a good external bridge router ends up being nothing but data collisions or unusable speeds. To further complicate the channel 6 problem most consumer routers SSID are the default meaning the name of the routers manufacture. A WiFi chipset can not differentiate between 2 or even 10 routers on the same channel with the same SSID (name). It keeps trying to use all the different routers as the signal levels fade and rise from the noise they generate. Think of the AP's this way they are all shouting and your at the far end it all sounds like noise every once in awhile you hear a few words but you can not differentiate which router is shouting at you. Eventually you give up. This is the best analogy I can give about this problem. Many areas now have blocking on channels 1, 6 & 11. I have found using channel 3 and 9 for AP's seems to give the best results. However it all depends on the person doing the installation performing a site survey to determine the best channel or channels to set up land based access points on. This is entirely different then using router/ AP's in the home environment where the signals are always strong and outside interference is generally not an issue. With a boat we are trying to use WiFi for what it was never intended to do. Most of the time it works but as the WiFi spectrum gets more crowded longer distance WiFi is becoming difficult to impossible under varying local conditions.
With that being said I still think anyone who spends a fair amount of time on board a boat should have WiFi in addition to a good cellular data plan.
Bill
 
Jim other than using a directional antenna on the ROGUE the standard antenna is actually one of the best for your use.
You may have more then 1 problem depending on the Netgear routers set up and channel in relation to the Linksys.
I still think your Tices Shoal AP (Linksys) is what needs to be upgraded. If you truly have LOS (line of site) from your house to Tices this has a chance of working depending on the RF environment around your home. This is a big "what if" so if you can download Netstumbler (free) it will show you the various AP SSIDs, signal levels and SINR (quality). Then you will know what you are up against. It might help me determine your next best coarse of action.
Also report back about the Netgear's channel of operation. You might want to start by putting the Netgear on channel 3 and the Linksys on channel 9. This is something basic you can do without spending money. Just an FYI when testing the WiFi link anchor the boat, the signal will be more stable. WiFi was never meant to be mobile.
Bill
 
Bill, I checked the router channels as you suggested. My Netgear router has all channels set to "auto". I can manually select a specific channel if you suggest. The linksys router (pointed out the window to Tices) is currently set on channel 4.
I downloaded Netstumbler but when I try to use it, I get a message at the bottom of the panel that says "access denied". I am about to download the program to another computer and see if it is usable.

Can you please explain to me (as simply as possible) what would be a cost-effective alternative to the linksys router?

Thanks again. You've been great.

Jim
 
quote:
Originally posted by Jim D

Bill, I checked the router channels as you suggested. My Netgear router has all channels set to "auto". I can manually select a specific channel if you suggest. The linksys router (pointed out the window to Tices) is currently set on channel 4.
I downloaded Netstumbler but when I try to use it, I get a message at the bottom of the panel that says "access denied". I am about to download the program to another computer and see if it is usable.

Can you please explain to me (as simply as possible) what would be a cost-effective alternative to the linksys router?

Thanks again. You've been great.

Jim

Click to expand...
Jim I'm not sure there is a cost effective measure. If you give me a couple of days I can configure a Ubiquiti Bullet (what the ROGUE is based on)as an access point, you will need to use the Linksys as a switch (turn off the radio (access point) once I lend you the equipment. I have a few SISO 120 degree 15dbi WiFi commercial grade antenna panels which you could borrow to see if this link is even possible.
You need to get the Netstumbler program working so I can have a clearer idea of what you "we" are up against.
For now try taking the Netgear router out of "Auto" and change it to a fixed channel and the same goes for the current Linksys make sure they have at least 6 channels of separation. I'm thinking without knowing the RF environment the current AP's are operating in we are just guessing. I'd try the channel 3 and 9 config. I mentioned earlier.
If you want call me tomorrow at 609-377-0022 and I can discuss setting up the equipment and lending it to you so you can see if this will work for you at Tices Shoal.
Fair enough?
There are no strings attached all I ask is that after the test you give me the equipment back. In the meantime I will look up the cost of a setup like this. I was hoping your 3rd floor had a balcony that way the equipment could be mounted outside where it has a better chance of working. However if this isn't possible it's still worth a try in my opinion. Ask anyone from the board I am the real deal and expect nothing in return for helping out a fellow member.
Jim I would try and get this together for you this weekend but I am swamped at work, so it has to wait until later this coming week.
Jim one other question where is your home located is it on the water? If you have rough GPS coordinates that will help me look at a plot using a Google KML file/ plot. Actually GPS coordinates of Tices Shoal would help as well.
Bill
 
quote:
Originally posted by Billylll

Kurt we don't seem to have the speed issues in NJ and NY that our southern members report.
Click to expand...


Yeah, I have no idea what that's about. Beacon Wi-Fi at Florida marinas completely sucks. And even when it's a marina-run network it usually sucks there. I haven't had much success with MD-based marina Wi-Fi either.

quote:

With that being said I still think anyone who spends a fair amount of time on board a boat should have WiFi in addition to a good cellular data plan.
Bill

Click to expand...


I 100% agree. I would add that a boat that needs access should not only have a Wi-Fi amp and external antenna, but also a cellular amp and external antenna. I have both 3G and 4G cellular amps (and then there's the whopping 9kbps throughput of the satellite phone :-)
 
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