Balsa Coring
- Thread starter Max_L
- Start date
Max,
I'm not sure which models you're looking at. They ceased production of the 460 Express Cruiser in 1989. Since you mentioned the 44, you are probably referring to the generic term "express boat", not SeaRay's model designation of "Express Cruiser", but even so, I suspect that the year or length isn't accurate. When SeaRay calls a boat an EC, it's an express-style boat with straight drives, so the engines occupy the area that would otherwise be a mid-cabin in a v-drive boat.
In 1996, the closest cousin to the previous 460EC was the 45 Sundancer, aka the 450DA. Being a Sundancer, the 450DA has a mid-cabin stateroom and is equipped with v-drive engines, which could be Cat 3116, 3126 or the occasional and sought-after Cummins 6CTA.
The 450DA btw, was fully-cored throughout its production run.
I'm not sure which models you're looking at. They ceased production of the 460 Express Cruiser in 1989. Since you mentioned the 44, you are probably referring to the generic term "express boat", not SeaRay's model designation of "Express Cruiser", but even so, I suspect that the year or length isn't accurate. When SeaRay calls a boat an EC, it's an express-style boat with straight drives, so the engines occupy the area that would otherwise be a mid-cabin in a v-drive boat.
In 1996, the closest cousin to the previous 460EC was the 45 Sundancer, aka the 450DA. Being a Sundancer, the 450DA has a mid-cabin stateroom and is equipped with v-drive engines, which could be Cat 3116, 3126 or the occasional and sought-after Cummins 6CTA.
The 450DA btw, was fully-cored throughout its production run.
This is a 460EC:
Nearly a 15' beam! The cockpit resembles a dance floor. This model has a striking resemblance (inside and out) to its smaller sister, the 390EC.
This is the 450DA:
This is the v-drive, mid-cabin model with a cockpit designed for lounging, not fishing.
Here is a 420DA/440DA:
While it looks more like a 460EC, it's actually the predecessor to the 450DA. It was first the 420DA, renamed the 440DA (with only a few minor changes - basically the same boat). The latter models have a more current look, as they went from the slit side windows to the round port holes.
Nearly a 15' beam! The cockpit resembles a dance floor. This model has a striking resemblance (inside and out) to its smaller sister, the 390EC.
This is the 450DA:
This is the v-drive, mid-cabin model with a cockpit designed for lounging, not fishing.
Here is a 420DA/440DA:
While it looks more like a 460EC, it's actually the predecessor to the 450DA. It was first the 420DA, renamed the 440DA (with only a few minor changes - basically the same boat). The latter models have a more current look, as they went from the slit side windows to the round port holes.
B
blouderback
Guest
This may be a stupid question, but is a balsa cored hull a good thing or a bad thing, and why?
That's not a stupid question, but it's difficult to answer.
Fiberglass cored with balsa makes it lighter, and stronger, and can also help reduce the transmission of noise. That's good! That's why so many (nearly all) mfr's use some sort of coring in decks. Fiberglass would have to be too thick and heavy to be strong enough on it's own.
In the 90's, SeaRay and other builders started using more and more balsa for the reasons stated above. The bad part is when the FG skin is penetrated and water is allowed to compromise the integrity of the coring. (deck fittings, through-hulls, screws, damage, vents, windlasses etc) There was a belief that "end grain" balsa, even when subjected to moisture, wouldn't wick the moisture deep into the structure. Turns out, it does, and one could argue that SeaRay wasn't as careful as they should have been about protecting such large areas of below-the-waterline wood.
We're at a point where these boats are old enough that surveyors tend to go DIRECTLY to the hulls with moisture meters. Buyers have to be careful about moisture content in potential boats, and owners have to make sure their cores aren't subjected to moisture.
Fiberglass cored with balsa makes it lighter, and stronger, and can also help reduce the transmission of noise. That's good! That's why so many (nearly all) mfr's use some sort of coring in decks. Fiberglass would have to be too thick and heavy to be strong enough on it's own.
In the 90's, SeaRay and other builders started using more and more balsa for the reasons stated above. The bad part is when the FG skin is penetrated and water is allowed to compromise the integrity of the coring. (deck fittings, through-hulls, screws, damage, vents, windlasses etc) There was a belief that "end grain" balsa, even when subjected to moisture, wouldn't wick the moisture deep into the structure. Turns out, it does, and one could argue that SeaRay wasn't as careful as they should have been about protecting such large areas of below-the-waterline wood.
We're at a point where these boats are old enough that surveyors tend to go DIRECTLY to the hulls with moisture meters. Buyers have to be careful about moisture content in potential boats, and owners have to make sure their cores aren't subjected to moisture.
Yes it is a 1988 460EC is one of the boats. Did Sea Ray use balsa coring in the hulls on those models in 1988? With a Displacement rb2@gr5t 28,500 Lbs it would seem they had a solid hull.
Thanks for the pictures and information.
Thanks for the pictures and information.
Max,
I strongly doubt that it's a cored bottom, but I can't guarantee it. In later years, when balsa panic set in, SeaRay began changing coring practices, sometimes in mid-model year. In those cases, the only way to determine coring is to call SeaRay with HIN handy, or get information about at what serial number which practice was changed and how.
Confused yet?
I would expect more consistancy back then, but the short answer is to call SeaRay, preferably with a HIN in front of you, for specifics.
So the '88 is a 460EC. What's the '96?
I strongly doubt that it's a cored bottom, but I can't guarantee it. In later years, when balsa panic set in, SeaRay began changing coring practices, sometimes in mid-model year. In those cases, the only way to determine coring is to call SeaRay with HIN handy, or get information about at what serial number which practice was changed and how.
Confused yet?
I would expect more consistancy back then, but the short answer is to call SeaRay, preferably with a HIN in front of you, for specifics.So the '88 is a 460EC. What's the '96?
A caveat of that era is those long slit windows. Happy/loyal owners of '80's SeaRays are everywhere you look, but you won't come across many who won't use 4-letter words to describe those windows. It wasn't a great design and they tend to leak.
There's a 460EC in Lake St. Clair on which someone has removed the windows and fitted what appears to be a custom peice of white acrylic over the windows on each side instead.
It looks like a simple solution to an annoying problem, and the boat looks really good - it gives it a custom look and makes the boat look even bigger than it is. If I come across her in the next few weeks, I'll snap a pic and post it.
There's a 460EC in Lake St. Clair on which someone has removed the windows and fitted what appears to be a custom peice of white acrylic over the windows on each side instead.
It looks like a simple solution to an annoying problem, and the boat looks really good - it gives it a custom look and makes the boat look even bigger than it is. If I come across her in the next few weeks, I'll snap a pic and post it.
The 1996 is a 44' Sea Ray Express Bridge, then there is a 1995 45' Sea Ray Sundancer. I will get the vin numbers and call Sea Ray. I would think on the 88 the windows must come out and could be resealed. I haven't looked at the boats yet but will look at the windows and look at ease of removing and resealing.
Thanks for the suggestions and information.
Thanks for the suggestions and information.
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SLW is the one to ask on Sea Ray questions...he's the gospel! On another note...I don't think 28,500 is heavy for a 46 foot boat. In fact, it sounds kinda light.
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Searay came out with a 46 dancer I think in 1999 to 2005
Big boat 51' LOA x 14'8" Most had Cummins 450c's
I'm with Kenny on the weight, my boat is 48' at the water line, full balsa cored hull and it's 42k dry
that being said there is a guy at my marina with a 80's 460EC and loves the boat, says it built like a tank
Big boat 51' LOA x 14'8" Most had Cummins 450c's
I'm with Kenny on the weight, my boat is 48' at the water line, full balsa cored hull and it's 42k dry
that being said there is a guy at my marina with a 80's 460EC and loves the boat, says it built like a tank
Max,
The 450DA and 440EB were fully-cored. Andy is correct about the 460DA. It replaced the 450DA in '99, and was one of those models that saw several changes in construction technique as it relates to coring. '99 and 2000 examples lack a hardtop and galley porthole, so they're easily identified. They also take a hit on resale so they are a lot of boat for the money.
I also agree that the 460EC is a cool boat, and a tank! The layout below is cavernous. Great boat for a couple with occasional guests, but most families are more comfortable in dancers and the EB's. (you'll see what I mean once you inspect the "2nd stateroom/closet" arrangement - the closet part isn't sarcasm)
I expect about 28,000 lbs (dry) in a 46 ft express boat. Bridge boats/Sedans etc. will be siginificantly heavier.
The 450DA and 440EB were fully-cored. Andy is correct about the 460DA. It replaced the 450DA in '99, and was one of those models that saw several changes in construction technique as it relates to coring. '99 and 2000 examples lack a hardtop and galley porthole, so they're easily identified. They also take a hit on resale so they are a lot of boat for the money.
I also agree that the 460EC is a cool boat, and a tank! The layout below is cavernous. Great boat for a couple with occasional guests, but most families are more comfortable in dancers and the EB's. (you'll see what I mean once you inspect the "2nd stateroom/closet" arrangement - the closet part isn't sarcasm)
I expect about 28,000 lbs (dry) in a 46 ft express boat. Bridge boats/Sedans etc. will be siginificantly heavier.