bow thrusters

I guess I'm starting to see, there are fewer real boaters around anymore. Nobody wants to learn boating, they want to have all the bull that is sold, no charts anymore, this will kill you someday, if you boat in the wrong place.
Don't learn how to handle the boat, buy all the toys.
We end up having people, I won't call them boaters, "driving" boats, don't know what a spring line is, can't make the boat fast to the dock, just can't do anything right. I have to boat with these people, it's sad.
 
Jim....you will never have to worry about boating with me!!!
 
quote:
Originally posted by In the know

quote:
Originally posted by freddy063

quote:
Originally posted by In the know

A thruster for a 27' boat with twins is a waste of money. I could think of a very long list of other items I would buy before spending the money on a thruster.

Click to expand...


like what would you buy?

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Okay, without knowing what equipment you have some may be duplication, but here goes, in no particular order, and any combination of itmes works as well

1) EPIRB
2) Second EPIRB
3) PLB's
4) Life raft
5) Another VHF
6) GPS
7) Radar
8) A second handheld GPS
9) Ditch bag and all related gear
10) Another handheld VHF
11) New Down riggers
12) Sat Phone
13) Cold weather survival suits
14) Zodiac
15) A massive shopping spree for new tackle
16) A second Radar
17) Outfit my crew with inflatable PFD's (Sospenders or Mustang)
18) Chartplotter
19) SSB
20) A 13' Whaler to refurbish
21) Enter the Martha's Vineyard Shark Tournament
22) Re-canvas the boat
23) Outriggers
24) Greenstick

and on and on.

Click to expand...

1) EPIRB (GOT ONE)
2) Second EPIRB(might be a good idea)
3) PLB's (have them)
4) Life raft (got one)
5) Another VHF (?)
6) GPS (got two)
7) Radar (got one)
8) A second handheld GPS (?)
9) Ditch bag and all related gear( got one)
10) Another handheld VHF (?)
11) New Down riggers (got two)
12) Sat Phone
13) Cold weather survival suits (gots 4)
14) Zodiac (got one)
15) A massive shopping spree for new tackle (don't need anything)
16) A second Radar (?)
17) Outfit my crew with inflatable PFD's ((Sospenders or Mustang)(got sos'S)
18) Chartplotter (Have 2)
19) SSB (got one)
20) A 13' Whaler to refurbish(got a 16' somewhere)
21) Enter the Martha's Vineyard Shark Tournament (would love too lets go
22) Re-canvas the boat) (not this year)
23) Outriggers (got them)
24) Greenstick ( what is a green stick ?)

but your probably right in the last 6 years sence I had this boat, might of been maybe 3 times I ready needed some bow thrust help, but it would of been nice to have.[:-boggled]
 
"I guess I'm starting to see, there are fewer real boaters around anymore."

Jim,
If a "real boater" is a person that needs to pound their chest and does not have the brains to take advantage of new and affordable technology to make life easier, I would rather be a fake boater.

I assume a "real" landscaper has a push mower, a "real" baseball player does not wear a cup, a "real" secretary uses a typwriter, and a real man would us a horse to travel.

Gees.........

Walter
 
I have a 14 foot Seado Speedster, docking it is a adventure, a thruster would be a great addition. The Seado is a jet drive which only drifts at idle, the boat does have a thrust feature when not in gear and the wheel is turned to lock right or left it shoots a blast from the jet. I guess with pratice this might work, but without you do a lot of banging off things. My Meridian 411 has bow and stern thrusters and they make me look like a pro at the dock where ever I go.
john d
 
I agree Walter.

Signed,
Another Fake Boater

quote:
Originally posted by walterv

"I guess I'm starting to see, there are fewer real boaters around anymore."

Jim,
If a "real boater" is a person that needs to pound their chest and does not have the brains to take advantage of new and affordable technology to make life easier, I would rather be a fake boater.

I assume a "real" landscaper has a push mower, a "real" baseball player does not wear a cup, a "real" secretary uses a typwriter, and a real man would us a horse to travel.

Gees.........

Walter

Click to expand...
 
i dont' want to use the words real boater or driver; my concern is that if you don't practice certain skills, you're going to loose them. the average boater already doens't use his boat a lot, so if he uses his thrusters too often, his skill level is going to go down and the day the thrusters dont' work, he may be in deep doo doo...

i know, i know... everybody says they only use them as a back up, if really needed, etc... sure... when is the last time you practiced docking on one engine ? when is the last time you practiced using a spring line on a windy day ?

i also think, and my boat still has a cracked stanchion base to prove it, that thrusters can be a distraction... I know that the neighbor who hit me a couple of month ago was trying to force his bow with the joystick and in the process forgot to use his shifters thinking the thruster was going to save his butt. well, it didn't work. I believe that if he had relied on conventional technique, he woudln't have hit me.

twin engine inboards require very little skills so it's not about bragging and thumping your chest. if anything, i woudl say that thrusters on twin inboards are the easy way out... kind of like taking a calculator to figure out 20 gallons ** 2.30 a gallon.

now as i've said before, if your home dock is exposed to strong winds and you have some danger lurking close by (rocks,e tc...) then thrusters are worth it. absolutely. but for 90% of twin engines boaters, they are jsut a marketing gimmick by the builders.

as to using thrusters to hold position waiting for a bridge or fuel dock in current, well, i do that all the time with a high windage boat, sometimes in crowded condition... dont' keep the boat sideway, jsut angle it into the wind... i'd love to see how long the typical light duty electrical thruster will be able to work against wind or current without tripping its overheat breaker !

now, the original post is about a twin OB boat... these dont' have the torque and leverage that inboard do, so if you feel you need it, go for it...
 
I've had the pleasure to sail with some of the best shiphandlers in the world. Servicing buoys and the such can put you in some very precarious positions and my hand goes out to the skippers that drive these boats. That being said the one thing I've learned, because they told me, is that "Thrusters will never make a "bad" boat handler a "good" boat handler, they will make a "good" boat handler a "great" boat handler!"
 
On of the best jobs one could ever have is to drive a launch tender at a yacht club or marina. I did it for 6 years throughout my teens. 26' Crosby x 2, 1 with stick steering and one with a wheel. Even with a single screw I could land that boat in any conditions forward or reverse. Hundreds upon hundreds of landings each season to the point I didn't have to think about it. Wind, seas, load and speed were almost automatic. What I'm saying is, that thrusters or not, nothing replaces repetition.
 
Fred,
If you already have every accessory possible for your boat then why not? I have had a couple occasions of docking in relative brisk winds and maybe a bow thruster would have assisted, but the experience of getting the job done with twin engines, rudders, spring lines, and dock help was worth it. I watch other boaters, in my area, using bow thrusters and sometimes it is a neat and surgical docking and then there are times when over use of the thruster puts the boats sideways in the slip. Do what you want but just remember, another item to maintain.
 
steela... "hundreds upon hundreds of landings" this is the key here : experience which the average boater never gets. problem when you add thrusters to a boat is that their skill level will eventually go down since they will get even less pratcice...
 
Yep pascal, I'm 100% with you there in fact, I let my 11 year old dock the boat when we're out of the harbor. Imaginary dock obviously. We do it every time we're out maybe half dozen times. I've found most people get into trouble from underpowering a landing and letting conditions interfere with the sweet spot and inertia of the boat. I've also slammed a few from not powering down but them's the breaks!LOL
 
quote:
Originally posted by PascalG

steela... "hundreds upon hundreds of landings" this is the key here : experience which the average boater never gets. problem when you add thrusters to a boat is that their skill level will eventually go down since they will get even less pratcice...

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I 100% DISAGREE.

Pascal and I never agree on this topic :)

I can't speak for the "average" boater, but in my case it has increased my skill level.

My boat is a kite in the wind, having the thrusters gave me the opportunity to learn how to control my kite and not have the fear of damaging my boat or others. It made the learning curve of knowing how my boat will react and what I need to do, short and safe. I have the wind part down pat (where I boat we have lot's of wind).

All boats react differently to currents and wind, you do not know how your boat will react until you are in that situation. So learning is like a crash course (pun intended). If you have a thruster and you make a mistake your thruster is your out, otherwise it is off to the fiberglass shop.
I look forward to tight quarters, current and wind now. It gives me a chance to better my skills and learn what I need. Knowing that I have a thruster to bail me out makes this all possible for me.

Just my 2c

Walter
 
so walter, if i understand you correctly, you do not use your thrusters unless you are in a situation where you are forced to ? in that case, it's an insurance policy, it's safety net, nothing more... i understand. my concern is people who only use the thrusters when they could do otherwise.
 
quote:
Originally posted by JimPend

I guess I'm starting to see, there are fewer real boaters around anymore. Nobody wants to learn boating, they want to have all the bull that is sold, no charts anymore, this will kill you someday, if you boat in the wrong place.
Don't learn how to handle the boat, buy all the toys.
We end up having people, I won't call them boaters, "driving" boats, don't know what a spring line is, can't make the boat fast to the dock, just can't do anything right. I have to boat with these people, it's sad.

Click to expand...


Jim,

I'll agree on the charts aspect of your post. Last I checked, the Naval Academy and OCS still teach parallel rules. That's where the agreement with this particular post ends.

In 1984 I was stationed in USS Blue Ridge (LCC-19), Yokosuka, Japan. We were in homeport. The assignment itself is no big deal. I mention it because as the flagship, we monitored everything going on in the harbor. I was on the bridge watching a Spruance class destroyer (the Hewitt?) making ready to get underway. A guy came up from radio and said to me "You ain't gonna believe this LT. Watch."

Seems the tugs assigned to get the ship away from the pier were going to be delayed for three hours. The C.O. determined he wasn't waiting. He walked all 500+ feet of her away from the pier and took off on his own. Talk about 'nads!

He may be saying "I have to boat with these people, it's sad." about you Jim.

Lighten up.
 
I have to say I have thrusters and i use them every time i dock, however my brother has a 2900 Tiara with twins and no thrusters which I can dock with no problem. I could dock my boat without the thrusters any time I wanted too, but why? Thrusters (two) make me look like a old pro. I get a lot of complements on my boat handling at the dock. I bring the boat in dead slow, i use the engines and the thrusters, the thrusters let me keep the boat clear of the pier front and back by a couple feet till i get to the position i want and then i still use the engines and maybe the thrusters. I especially like the ability to keep the boat near the dock when the wind is blowing the bow or stern away before we get a line attached. I use the thruster with little taps, I do not hold it on for more than 5 seconds. If there is so much wind the thruster is not going to turn the boat i reverse if possible a roll in from the other direction. The thruster is a great tool. Most of you use a plotter and electronic charts also great tools so why not a thruster. I have a Glendenning cord reel luxury item, but i use it. Are you going to give up GPS and plotters, auto pilot just because they are not true to the craft. I am right now taking a course on Coastal Navigation which teaches the real way to plot, no GPS,no plotter, when finished i will have more skills and when needed I will have the ability to plot and follow a course from the paper charts, but for sure I will not give up all my electronic toys and revert to back the paper charts. I carry full paper charts and the smaller ports chart book for all the areas we travel, so if needed the tools will be onboard. I own a business where the craft is traditionally preformed with hand tools, standard machine tools and a great deal of skill. Years ago I saw a better way, we are all CNC with the ability to do the hand work when it is the better way. This works in our business and it works for me on the boat. I want the skills to be able to do it without the electronic tools, but for sure I am going to use the tools i have, that goes for thrusters, plotters, autopilots, and radar. I don't see any reason to question this logic as i know it works for me.
John d
2005 Meridian 411 SB
 
Well said by walter..

As been said 100000 million times ITs just another tool to make it MORE ENJOYABLE...

Getting that extra day out when hey noramlly u wouldnt go out .. but the thruster makes it possible...

Some old school guys love there sextants.... Yea god luck with that ....

Walter summed it up... Jim u got a/c on ur boat ??? Dont yea think a/c's for sissy ??

U opened the box .... Hey fenders for sissys too??

Rob
 
quote:
Originally posted by PascalG

so walter, if i understand you correctly, you do not use your thrusters unless you are in a situation where you are forced to ? in that case, it's an insurance policy, it's safety net, nothing more... i understand. my concern is people who only use the thrusters when they could do otherwise.

Click to expand...


Well, I would be lieing if I said yes to that. I will on occasion use it to dock perfectly and not touch the poles. I will use it to push the bow away from the dock on a windy day, I will use it to postion the stern of the boat when fishing (this is nice because I don't have to start the motors). I will also use when I am just plane lazy and do not want to make a second approach to the dock.

But in most cases, which is not to often anymore I will use it to bail me out if I misjudged wind or current.

I get your point, and it is very easy to get lazy and use them all the time.

Keep in mind my boat has pockets and is gas, it is not as responsive as if I had diesel, no bite.

Walter

Walter
 
MANY years ago I worked a twin screw inboard with a bow thruster. THERE IS NO QUESTION in my mind that it is an advantage. While most of the time I could walk and maneuver the boat without the thruster, when used it was a real treat. For several weeks I had to operate on one engine while waiting for parts; generally the thruster enabled us to to the job, which probably would have been impossible with one engine alone.

Currently I don't have nor do I feel I need a bow thruster ($$$). However if I were routinely in a marina with other boats ($$$) in close proximity I would probably install one.

If you have one, my best advice is to USE it. Only then will you learn what it can (and can't) do for you.

Before we had bow thrusters we had anchors, and most of us still do. An anchor at the ready can really save the day. There've been a few times where dropping the hook at the right moment helped me get the boat back under control.
 
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