Buff Magic never buffing out to nice shine

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watson524

Member
Joined
Mar 24, 2008
RO Number
29669
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322
Hi all,

I'm working on trying to restore some shine to my gel coat on a 1987 Chap that has been ill cared for (meaning never compounded).... It's got some pretty heavy oxidation (pictures on my other post on using a rotary). Apparently Buff Magic (I am now using Megs Heavy Duty Oxi Remove, then BM, then PP) is supposed to end up as nice and shiny once you're done buffing it. Does that mean after you wipe it off with a dry rag or literally when you're done machining it (I'm using the HF rotary with a yellow wool pad). Mine goes to a haze which looks ok underneath when I wipe it off, but the machine itself never gets it to a shine.

thanks!
 
When I used BM last year for the first time there was lots of shine right after buffing. I still put PP on afterward. My finish was in good shape because I had the boat compounded professionally the year before.

Good luck
Niles
 
I must be doing something wrong with the buffer then. I'm getting a dull haze with a slight grit that I have to wipe off after both the Megs and the Buff Magic.
 
I'm having a similar problem with that that I have with the Buff Magic. With the buffer itself, it doesn't seem to break down all the way and leaves a gritty residue that I have to wipe off. Decent shine underneath once I wipe but....
 
I used bm once. Are you working small areas at a time? Maybe 2x2 squares until you get the disired results then moving to the next spot ?
 
You may be using too much Buff Magic ....
 
I'm putting it on as thin as I can w a foam paintbrush. I am covering all of a 2x2 area with it and working on that spot. Maybe I just need to put it on the outline or something. It's on thin tho. I go up and down w overlap, then back and forth w overlap, then repeat two more times... Hf buffer is on about 2 speed
 
Keep in mind that the layer of oxidized gelcoat does not just vaporize while buffing. It will mix in with the compound making the compound a thicker paste. I would imagine your pads are getting gummed up as well. I am of the opinion that an initial wet sanding of the gelcoat is the first step if there is medium to heavy oxidation. The gelcoat does not oxidize in a uniform layer; it creates pits. Buffing with compound will dramatically improve the shine but looking at the right angle you may notice these pits which may be be several thousandth on an inch. An advantage of wet sanding is that it the old oxidized getcoat is held by the water and either drips off the boat or absorbed by the towel when wiped dry. I would start with 800-1000 grit sand paper and then go back over with 1500. If you have the time, hit it with 2500. At this point the Buff Magic should work. I would think it would take somewhere about 40 hours to do for a smaller boat. The problem with buffing is that it is much finer than sandpaper and it needs to be gone over and over.
 
The HO more than likely will not break down all the way unless you buff it until the cows come home. It is OK to have the wax residue. Let it dry and rub it off with a towel.

I don't want to ruffle feathers around here, but I also had residue left over last year when I used BM. Just wiped that off with a towel. Worked out OK on white sections, but I am returning to the HO this year for the dark colored areas of the hull. This is not because of the film left behind, rather I do not believe that the BM is aggressive enough

The PP is just like any other wax. Wax-on, Wax-off
 
I just put a small "dabs" about 10 inches apart with a small paintbrush over a 2 aq ft area and buff 'til it's gone ... works great for me. It is not necessary to cover the entire area.
 
+1
I too just do a few dabs in a smaill area. Also, right or wrong I use white Lake County foam pads
Niles
 
I just used the Meguiar's three step process, including the HO, on my boat and it worked out well.
My hull is always in tough shape in the spring because it spends the season in the water where I can't really get to it for proper maintenance, then I just give it a good cleaning before it gets shrink wrapped.
I've tried putting a good coat of wax on it before it gets covered, but IMHO it did nothing for me.
Sounds like you might be using too much product.
I buy foam wax applicators by the dozen for use on the boat and the cars. I toss them when I'm finished with them that day for whatever particular step I used it on. I never use an applicator for more than one single product or step in a process.
I used them to lightly apply the product. You will get some residue, or haze. Just wipe it off with a clean towel of your choice and move on. I try to do the boat in 2 foot sections, and it takes forever. Too much more than that though and the product will dry up too fast on you.
I used a rotary buffer with the oxidation remover, but the buffer died on me when I was doing the next step, polishing, so I finished it by hand. It actually worked out pretty well, and was better than moving that heavy machine back and forth on the big vertical surfaces. I think it worked out well because the surface was well prepared by the HO. That, and I think that particular line of Meguiar's products are probably formulated to be applied by hand.
I applied the wax by hand too. I know some people like to use a buffer for waxing, but I prefer to do it by hand. I find it easier, faster, and I think the finish comes out about the same.
I generally prefer paste over liquid wax. But the Meguiar's was pretty good stuff.
The trick, like with all last step products, is to apply it very lightly. I like to wait a day to let the product set up, and follow up with a second coat to make sure I have good coverage.
 
HF buffer on "2"s pretty slow IMHO. I use it at "4" and work the Buff Magic in until I can't see it anymore then wipe off with a clean towel. Two to Three foot sections at a time.
 
Well, after reading a bunch and advice from all you great people here, I decided to try the wet sanding. I'm doing it by hand (no way I'm brave enough to use a power tool with sandpaper on a boat or car). I got 800, 1500 and 2000 (couldn't find 2500 at any auto store around). For starters, I did 800, then 1500, then buff magic and then pro polish and I think it's coming out ok. It's a light gray so from head on, you don't get a lot of reflection but from an angle, I definitely think this is doing a better job. I only did a 2x2 section just to get a feel for things. Applied the BM much more sparingly and this time (a light dab in each of the 4 corners of my 2x2 "box" and a dab in the middle), it buffed out to almost a shine, had a very light haze I just wiped right off. I suspect I might get even better results with 800, 1500, possibly 2000, then Megs HO, then BM and PP.

Now, when I was wet sanding, the sanding block was getting a murky white sort of paste build off that I was rinsing off. At first I thought it was the dab of soap I put in the water but it's thicker and I believe that's the oxidation coming out/off, right? How do you know when you're done with each level of sandpaper and it's time to move on to the next? I only went back and forth with the line of the boat and not up and down, is that correct? Also - is there enough difference between 1500 and 2000 to warrant a pass with 2000 after using 800 and 1500?

Below are some pictures. I compared it to the gray that's up under the bow (i.e. never gets sunlight given the way our slip has always faced and the fact that it's under) and the color is coming back to almost the original I think. Like I said, it's gray so it doesn't really "pop" but the blue up top (which has taken less work and no wet sanding) has come back nice too.

boat4.jpg


boat3.jpg
 
Unless you're a professional, block sanding by hand is much safer. If given a choice I would error on not sanding it enough. No sense taking off more material and creating a bigger project. I would not spend much time, if any, going from 1500 to 2000. There is very little difference. Buff Magic or any buffing compound should be able to shine up gelcoat if sanded with 1500.

I look at it this way. If you didn't sand it far enough to get all the oxidiation off, it's no big deal. Next year when you hit it with the buffer again, it will get better. Remember that gelcoat is only so thick; the minimal amount removed is best. In my opinion it's best to get it to a point where you are happy. It's important that you do spend to much time getting it cleaned up that you feel exhuasted and do not protect the gelcoat (wax/polish).

In looking at the pictures there seems to be a big difference in appearance. Just sit back and realize that this year may have required the most work and that a little work each and every year will make it better.

That color gelcoat is not going to look like some of the 'whiter' gelcoats. From the pictuers it looks as good as its going to get.
 
Is the pro polish what I should consider my final step? I don't need to wax on top of that right? I know from what I've read here, more than one coat of wax is a waste of time so I figure wax over polish is equally futile.

And while I'm not wet sanding/compounding the white part below the water line, should I by polishing that part? Up in the bow, I will put polish on the white part because I can get to it but from about the back of the bow to stern, I have no way to get under there given I don't have a lift and it's on a trailer.
 
Hey watson524, that's looking pretty good! To answer your question of whether you need a wax after the Pro Polish, the answer is no. Pro Polish is a polymer sealant and takes the place of wax. You do not need to wax over it. I'd apply the Pro Polish to any part of the hull you can reach. Ideally you'd polish the entire hull but if that's all you can do then don't worry about it. Finish the rest of the oxidized portion the way you just did that small section, Pro Polish the entire boat and go have a beer and enjoy the nice shine you've put on it. Go boating!
 
Thanks! I had to go get more 1500 tonite but so far I have 800 done all around and 1500 on one side. Found some 2500 too so for good measure, I'm going to hit it with that after the 1500 and then start on the Megs HO, then the BM and finally the PP. Wednesday and Thursday I'm away from home so I don't expect to finish this up until the weekend but we fired the boat up on the muffs tonite and all seems to be in order so that's good news. I'll post some pictures when I'm done.
 
When using BM do not use a foam pad and or an orbital buffer. You should use a wool pad on a 90 degree rotory buffing wheel. Remember there are compound, buffing and polishing pads. If heavy oxidation, use a heavier compound first, then BM, then your polish. I only use BM and Rejex. No wax at all.
 
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