I have a charity 501c3 and put a boat together to take wheel chair bound vets out on the water, free. I have a pair of 1987 220 hp carbureted Crusaders, starboard runs fine, port, ser. # 64760 model # LH220 starts fine, idles fine, runs to 1900 rpm or so fine and then won't go higher and knocks like bad gas. I have read all of the suggestions here plus we have done the following, all with no change: We have replaced all gas filters, full tank of fresh marine gas, replaced intake manifold gaskets, adjusted hydraulic valves to specs, swapped P&S carbs, timed engine with light and vacuum gauge, all with no improvement. Can anyone help? My only other thought is the weights in the distributor being defective. They were visually inspected and seemed OK? Being a charity, I cannot chase rainbows and spend money unless I'm sure of rectifying the problem. Can I temporarily swap distributors? (will the gears at the bottom of the distributor shafts be the same?) If this solves the port problem and transfers it to the starboard, then I know what to spend money on. The Prestolite distributors and/or parts are not available anymore. BTW exhausts are completely new all the way and sound unrestricted. Captain Joe, Stuart, FL
cant get more than 2000 rpm from crusader
- Thread starter Capt. Joe
- Start date
Please be patient. Still trying to learn how to reply. Best answer is this has been going on since first time trying the boat. It was trucked to my location. Starboard has run fine from the get-go, port has always run bad like this. Engines have about 100 hours because previous owner was airline pilot and never had time for the boat.
Follow Hogan's advice, also although I doubt it is the problem, is one engine counter rotating and the other standard? Which engine is giving you problems?
Best of luck and keep posting there are a lot of smart people on here that can help you.
My other suggestion would be to check the compression on the engine that won't go above 2000 rpm.
Bill
Best of luck and keep posting there are a lot of smart people on here that can help you.
My other suggestion would be to check the compression on the engine that won't go above 2000 rpm.
Bill
What HOGAN said...I had an issue one time and luckily found the problem running the engine at night...a spark plug wire chaffed and was arcing against a hose which had a metal coil inside.
A compression test is probably a good idea as well.
Check to make sure you have full fuel flow if you can.
Verify timing on both engines are identical at same RPM.
A compression test is probably a good idea as well.
Check to make sure you have full fuel flow if you can.
Verify timing on both engines are identical at same RPM.
- Joined
- Jan 1, 2000
- RO Number
- 2006
- Messages
- 359
Sorry for the Boating issues and thank you for helping our Vets! My guess is the dist is not advancing the spark. On the functioning power plant connect a timing light to #1 plug and while watching the timing mark vary the throttle and observe the timing mark change. Then go to the power plant with the issue and do the same. My guess is the advance will not change or not change as much as the other power plant.
In these older distributors the weights freeze, the springs break etc.
Additionally if one is counter rotating I believe the gears are cut opposite from a normal rotating power plant.
In these older distributors the weights freeze, the springs break etc.
Additionally if one is counter rotating I believe the gears are cut opposite from a normal rotating power plant.
Thank you to everyone so far. We have tried all of the suggestions so far except swapping distributors which I suspect is the problem. (weights) Compression check was fine all other work was done with timing light and vacuum gauge. One problem I will try to correct tomorrow is that there is no timing tab on the front timing chain cover so mechanic has been timing from rear of engine at flywheel, but they are v-drives and in backwards and almost impossible to see. N. Carolina dealer has timing tabs for front of motor but I need to take a few pics and send to them for the correct ones.
Some initial quick thoughts to check....
Are you limited to 2,000 rpm's in gear only or in neutral as well?
Do you hear a bunch of popping and cracking when you cut the throttle of the poor engine?
When you pull the plugs what color/condition are they?
Have you checked for vacuum leaks with something like carb cleaner when the engine is running at idle?
Is there 'material' transferring from one side of the points to the other?
Are you limited to 2,000 rpm's in gear only or in neutral as well?
Do you hear a bunch of popping and cracking when you cut the throttle of the poor engine?
When you pull the plugs what color/condition are they?
Have you checked for vacuum leaks with something like carb cleaner when the engine is running at idle?
Is there 'material' transferring from one side of the points to the other?
Have not been able to check timing in gear and varied speed due to not having timing tab in front. Props are brand new and proper size 17x16. There are no points, plugs in both engines have not been checked and have not been changed. Everything on both motors seem to be the same, please remember stbd runs fine up and over 4000 at least. Still brings me back to distributor weights. Again does anyone have a definitive answer on whether I can temporarily swap p & s distributors even if engines are counter-rotating (they are) I know firing order is different but are the gears at bottom of dist. the same?
easttnboater
Member
- Joined
- Sep 15, 2006
- RO Number
- 23415
- Messages
- 209
"Plugs in both engines have not been checked and have not been changed". I understand it is for charity and you cannot spend money unnecessarily, but I would replace the plugs first before swapping distributors. If you can't spend the money for the plugs, then switch them from motor to motor.
There are so many possibilities to check. Checking the advance weights is only one possibility. One that hasn't been mentioned is distributor is installed 180* off.
Of course, Not being able to time it cuz no timing tab can sure have an effect on ability to run properly. You can manually time the engine and guestimate the zero timing mark by checking the other engine mark and measure from a casting ridge or freeze plug or any other consistant feature of all engines. Scribe a mark on the block as zero and scribe 1/4" to the left (standard rotation) for every 2*. That'll get you close enuff.
Of course, Not being able to time it cuz no timing tab can sure have an effect on ability to run properly. You can manually time the engine and guestimate the zero timing mark by checking the other engine mark and measure from a casting ridge or freeze plug or any other consistant feature of all engines. Scribe a mark on the block as zero and scribe 1/4" to the left (standard rotation) for every 2*. That'll get you close enuff.
I don't have a timing tab either...but I do have a marker and a timing light with a dial that allows me to check to see I'm getting advancement.
From there, find your appropriate timing chart and check it out.
Have you double and triple checked the firing order since this is a counter rotating engine?
From there, find your appropriate timing chart and check it out.
Have you double and triple checked the firing order since this is a counter rotating engine?
- Joined
- May 5, 2009
- RO Number
- 31212
- Messages
- 742
I put the Petronix igniter in 13 years ago. In 2010 on the way back from Panco my motor quit. No spark. Had to replace the igniter. I am going to replace it every 7 or 8 years now.
NO, if you have LH and RH rotation engines as I do, the distrib. gears and firing order are NOT the same even though the rotor and dist shaft turns clockwise on both ......MAYBE..... you could just knock out the roll pin retaining the helical dist gears to swap , but not positive about that and you sure would not want to confuse them later. Is everything still standard on your distributors- no conversion yet? External ballast resistor still used with non-resistor coil?
I never used the Crusader special flywheel window timing gauge that came with my old '88 270 hp carbed crusaders, but I'd think with the dial advance timing light you should have no problem dialing the spec 10*BTDC on the light and finding a 0*TDC mark on the flywheel when turning the dust base, then rechecking after re-tightening. Do you have that gauge? Timing is set at 750 RPM in neutral.
(I had straight trannies and could use the easy conventional crank pulley and timing strip tooth marks.)
If you still have points ignition have you confirmed points contacts are in excellent shape and dwell is in the 28*-(aim for 29.5*)-31* range after tightening back down? Dwell must be set before timing.
At one point with one of the original distributors I heard a loud pinging, thinking detonation, but it turned out a tiny circlip on the dist advance weights was off and pinballing around occasionally , making a noise like someone was banging on the marlin tower legs with a hammer. Do you see any advance with the timing lights rpms increase?
I eventually replaced the original Mallorys with the excellent Delco Voyager EST Electronic distributors and never had a single problem with those while I had those engines. The Pertronix would not have been a good solution for me as the tachs were "nervous", indicating a worn loose dist rotor shaft which I confirmed. If you choose to go with Pertronix, make sure you go with the Ignitor II , not the original plain Ignitor conversion module which gets burned out if the key is left just ON.
Make sure the choke opens all the way and confirm the secondaries are opening correctly- But if the other engine works fine and you swapped carbs and the problem did not follow the carb , that not the problem.
Double and triple check all plug wires are connected correctly at both ends.
Standard LH rotation FO is : 18436572 . Counter /RH engine is : 12756348.
Suggest you check fuel pressure from the fuel pump, and perhaps the fuel line vac pressure to the pump, and possible temporarily rig in a clear plastic fuel line to check for air bubbles from suction air leaks anywhere upstream of the pump or see if itr collapses under unrelieved vac pressure due to restriction.
Put the timing light inductive pickup on each plug cable to check for consistent ignition pulse (not necessarily spark firing if the cables are grounding elsewhere.
If the fuel lines are original they are quite possibly porous if they have been subjected to gasohol.
Check plugs , and perhaps swap plug cables and coils.
If you did not get all the old gas out you could still be sucking poor quality fuel from the bottom of the tank where the pickup is. Hooking up a test 6 gallon O/B tank to the fuel pump inlets will bypass bad fuel or upstream flow restriction issues.
Spec compression for those engines was 130-170 psi., chokes and throttles wide open.
I never used the Crusader special flywheel window timing gauge that came with my old '88 270 hp carbed crusaders, but I'd think with the dial advance timing light you should have no problem dialing the spec 10*BTDC on the light and finding a 0*TDC mark on the flywheel when turning the dust base, then rechecking after re-tightening. Do you have that gauge? Timing is set at 750 RPM in neutral.
(I had straight trannies and could use the easy conventional crank pulley and timing strip tooth marks.)
If you still have points ignition have you confirmed points contacts are in excellent shape and dwell is in the 28*-(aim for 29.5*)-31* range after tightening back down? Dwell must be set before timing.
At one point with one of the original distributors I heard a loud pinging, thinking detonation, but it turned out a tiny circlip on the dist advance weights was off and pinballing around occasionally , making a noise like someone was banging on the marlin tower legs with a hammer. Do you see any advance with the timing lights rpms increase?
I eventually replaced the original Mallorys with the excellent Delco Voyager EST Electronic distributors and never had a single problem with those while I had those engines. The Pertronix would not have been a good solution for me as the tachs were "nervous", indicating a worn loose dist rotor shaft which I confirmed. If you choose to go with Pertronix, make sure you go with the Ignitor II , not the original plain Ignitor conversion module which gets burned out if the key is left just ON.
Make sure the choke opens all the way and confirm the secondaries are opening correctly- But if the other engine works fine and you swapped carbs and the problem did not follow the carb , that not the problem.
Double and triple check all plug wires are connected correctly at both ends.
Standard LH rotation FO is : 18436572 . Counter /RH engine is : 12756348.
Suggest you check fuel pressure from the fuel pump, and perhaps the fuel line vac pressure to the pump, and possible temporarily rig in a clear plastic fuel line to check for air bubbles from suction air leaks anywhere upstream of the pump or see if itr collapses under unrelieved vac pressure due to restriction.
Put the timing light inductive pickup on each plug cable to check for consistent ignition pulse (not necessarily spark firing if the cables are grounding elsewhere.
If the fuel lines are original they are quite possibly porous if they have been subjected to gasohol.
Check plugs , and perhaps swap plug cables and coils.
If you did not get all the old gas out you could still be sucking poor quality fuel from the bottom of the tank where the pickup is. Hooking up a test 6 gallon O/B tank to the fuel pump inlets will bypass bad fuel or upstream flow restriction issues.
Spec compression for those engines was 130-170 psi., chokes and throttles wide open.