Crusader engine opinions

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Prospective

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I am currently looking at a 1989 Tiara 3600 open powered by twin 454cid crusader engines with 350hp. They are turning 3 blade props through straight inboards. One has 1300hrs and the other has 50 since a rebuild. I don't know what the rebuild consisted of (will find out) but involved pulling the motor from the boat.

I believe based on reports from Tiara et al.. that cruise is about 20knts at 3000rpms and 27gph. The boat weighs about 16k lbs.

I am looking for opinions on this setup and/or crusders in general. Life expectency, reliability, known problems, etc. I am under the impression that crusader are quality gas engines. And for the record, while I would prefer diesels, the $30k premium is out of my budget. And this particular boat has everything I'm looking for aside from diesel.

Thanks in advance..
 
Tiara is a nice boat, good choice.
Since one motor was already rebuilt, I assume the other is soon to follow.
Crusader is by far the best gas built motor in a boat.
As far as cruise speed and GPH.
I have the predecessor to those motors, 502 cubic inch, 385 HP and fuel injected.

My cruise (same weight boat)is 21 knots, 3400 to 3600 rpm with a real fuel burn (measured with a BGM, not math) of 29 to 34 GPH.

Hope this helps

Walter
 
Have Crusaers, 350CI,270 HP, put just over 2000hrs before rebuild.Both engines were pretty clean, Rebuilt both and they are still going strong.
IMHO, they are quality engines. Having said that, it is still about how well they are cared for.

John
 
1300 hours are coming close to the end of service life for that motor, not saying it won't go to 1500 or more but it will need to be rebuilt in the future. Worst thing though is when the motor gives up in the middle of the season.

Plan on an off season rebuild if you do buy the boat.

Those 454's have to burn more than 27 GPH at cruise, I can assure you that. I would put it closer to 32+ GPH and 3000 RPM's is little light for cruise speed on those motors IMHO, you really are looking at 3200+ RPM's for cruise.
 
quote:
Originally posted by Robyns Nest

1300 hours are coming close to the end of service life for that motor, not saying it won't go to 1500 or more but it will need to be rebuilt in the future. Worst thing though is when the motor gives up in the middle of the season.

Plan on an off season rebuild if you do buy the boat.

Those 454's have to burn more than 27 GPH at cruise, I can assure you that. I would put it closer to 32+ GPH and 3000 RPM's is little light for cruise speed on those motors IMHO, you really are looking at 3200+ RPM's for cruise.

Click to expand...


I'm sure you're right on the pending rebuild. The explanation given to me was one needed it, on the other, compression tests were good so no need. As for the fuel numbers, without a fuel flow computer I can't know for sure. But based on the test report I got from Tiara for this model year and power, cruise was 21.2mph at 27.6gph with 1000 pounds of gear and full fuel. Not to say that isn't wrong...
 
I had the same engines in my 38' which weighed 20000 lbs and had a 15' beam. I would cruise at 21 MPH at 3300 - 3500 RPM and burned 33 gallons per hour.

What exactly was done with the "rebuild"?

Did they replace manifolds & risers?
Replace both water pumps?
Replace oil cooler?
Clean heat exchanger?
 
quote:
Originally posted by HOGAN

I had the same engines in my 38' which weighed 20000 lbs and had a 15' beam. I would cruise at 21 MPH at 3300 - 3500 RPM and burned 33 gallons per hour.

What exactly was done with the "rebuild"?

Did they replace manifolds & risers?
Replace both water pumps?
Replace oil cooler?
Clean heat exchanger?

Click to expand...


I will find out, thanks for the questions. I don't really know what all could/would be involved in a rebuild. I figured it must have been at least somewhat involved to warrent pulling the motor out of the boat. But we shall see.
 
quote:
Originally posted by HOGAN

I had the same engines in my 38' which weighed 20000 lbs and had a 15' beam. I would cruise at 21 MPH at 3300 - 3500 RPM and burned 33 gallons per hour.

What exactly was done with the "rebuild"?

Did they replace manifolds & risers?
Replace both water pumps?
Replace oil cooler?
Clean heat exchanger?

Click to expand...


Wow Mike, that boat u had had a 15'beam?

Sweet
 
Oops, nice catch Walter, my new one is 15', the 38 was a 14' beam!
 
A rebuild would include, valve/head work, new valves, guides, springs, rework the valve seats, new cam, new pistons if needed, new rings for sure, timing chain, rework the block (honing, line bore the crank), new oil pump, full gasket kit, new crank and rod bearings, check the rods, new water pump and more. Basically replace all parts that wear out. Then you get to the external components of the motor and see if they are done, if so, replace.

Sometimes it's just easier to buy a new crate motor and replace, more money but you are getting new engine technology and all parts are new.
 
quote:
Originally posted by HOGAN

Oops, nice catch Walter, my new one is 15', the 38 was a 14' beam!

Click to expand...


I was very impressed with your old boat, I would have asked to board it and check it out when we meet at BI, but I felt that was a little forward since it was the first time we met.

Walter
 
quote:
Originally posted by Robyns Nest

1300 hours are coming close to the end of service life for that motor,

Click to expand...


I completely disagree with that statement.

We are talking 454 Crusaders not Merc's.

Ha-Uge difference.

2000+ hours if taken care of. No sweat.
 
quote:
Originally posted by JLC

quote:
Originally posted by Robyns Nest

1300 hours are coming close to the end of service life for that motor,

Click to expand...


I completely disagree with that statement.

We are talking 454 Crusaders not Merc's.

Ha-Uge difference.

2000+ hours if taken care of. No sweat.

Click to expand...


Thanks JLC, althought the rebuild on one engine would seem to suggest another isn't too far off. Maybe next time I'm in Watch Hill I'll have a new ride ;-)
 
That type of engine can go 2500 hr until rebuild. However, it really depends on how well it was cared for up to this time.
 
I'm burning 27 gph at 3200 rpm twin 454/350hp Crusaders / 1250 hours on them.

My overall average is 8ths of a mile to a gallon...includes slow spots in rivers, cruising speeds, and a few minutes at 4 grand once in a while. Its average is figured out from burning about 150 gal of fuel.
 
It is nearly impossible to say what the useful life is without knowing the maintenance history. I have run, and currently run crusaders. The bigger question is what triggered the rebuild on the one motor to begin with? Robyn's nest pretty much lays out what is required/typical in a rebuild. Another option is to replce the base engine and bolt on the components if still good. If they can't provide the full documentation on the rebuild - big red flag.
 
I have 31' Tiara with 454s and about 1300 hrs. Good compression on both at around 150 per cylinder I take very good care so hopefully have many hours to go. I would suggest verifying the other motor has good compression like the seller states. Real world numbers as of last weekend just launched with props just redone(18x21.5) on my 31 from Floscan are 3100rpm - 22.7kts - 11gph port and 12 gph starb so 23gph.

Remember Tiaras specs were brand new boat, boats absorb water and weight over time. 1000lbs is nothing.I would guess that boat weighs 3000-4000lbs over Tiaras advertised weight now.

What props does that sheet spec?
 
quote:
Originally posted by In the know

It is nearly impossible to say what the useful life is without knowing the maintenance history.

Click to expand...


You are absolutely correct. Even engines that have been maintained and run by the book, can say goodbye at any time.

You hear stories about engine replacement at 400 hrs, 700 hrs... there is just no telling ...almost like a fatal heart attack.

I like the feeling you get when you have owned your boat for time, you have taken care of the engines and you know in your heart they won't fail you.

Its like a mutual trust thing, but of course its all only in your mind.

I have come back from some pretty hard trips, in some brutal weather and just loved listening to my Crusaders running along like its just another sunny day in some lake.

I have gone as far as placing my hand on the dash and saying a silent "thank you" to my boat after she delivered us safely back to our marina in the worst of weather or just a long run many times.

I like bad weather, and rough sea's it makes the trip more interesting.
 
I would also add that with any new boat, I always change out manifolds, risers, impellers, plugs, belts, and filters upon acquisition. This sets a baseline for maintenance going forward and I am not "guessing" at what or how good any prios work was done.
 
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