Deal Reached on San Joaquin River Legislation

Sorry Baytrawler.... yes I do brag about being able to grow crops that feed the nation... or better yet feed the world. The valley is one of the MOST productive areas in the world. Let's not forget just how and why the delta came to being. Flood control and Water for crops. Boating is something that has came about as an off shoot.

I like both world... boating and farming.

BTW, I grow feed for cattle, that's corn and alfalfa.
 
Will your methods work with this one?!!!

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Did you know there are very strict rules about fishing for, catching and keeping salmon in the Delta and upstream rivers? I'm not well versed on these anymore, but I'm not sure your methods are legal! Better watch out if DFG cruses by.......

I've only retrieved caught fish with a fishing net......I'll be happy to bring mine along in case we can use it! I'm not sure salmon run in Sandmound Slu though

http://www.kcra.com/news/17968832/detail.html#
 
current toy, the Delta came into being through acts of God and nature. It was diked and channelized for navigational purposes and to REMOVE water from adjacent land for farming, not to PROVIDE water to desert areas miles and miles away. The water supply projects that irrigate your land in no way created any of the boating or fishing opportunities in the Delta, and have been only detrimental to the fishing. Furthermore, given the vast areas of agricultural land in the US, coupled with increasing demand for water for urban uses, the ongoing advisability (and economic feasibility) of irrigating desert land is coming seriously into question.

Maybe we should just make sure that the farmers pay "market rate" for their water, and see how quickly they'd rather sell their "allocation" to Los Angeles' water department....

BTG
 
Flutterby, I like the picture of that 88 pound King salmon, how timely for him or her to be in the news to fit nicely into our thread. [:-bonc01]

I am not yet up to speed on CA DFG regulations regarding salmon, but when the San Joaquin river is teeming with salmon after a 60 year hihitius I want to catch one. If they won't let me thump the fish on the head with my ligumun vita club before bringing it on board Pegasus I will install a car seat for the fish so we can all have a safe ride back. [:-goldfish] DD
 
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Let's just be sure to check the latest regs before we head out fishing.........
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Delta Dog, you look like you're ready to club the hell out of those dogs in that pic. I hope PETA doesn't see this. They'll spray paint your boat.
 
Guys and Gals, I was throwing that stick for the dogs and they were retrieving it as shown in this subsequent picture. They are labrador retrievers and they love to swim and retrieve. They have web feet.

I am glad it is the weekend, today I can go to Costco and check out the canned salmon.

I can also ride my bike up Iron Horse trail to Sportmart and look at rods and reels, I only have 2 light weight rods and reels now for bass and trout. To catch a King salmon in the San Joaquin I am going to need a heavier duty rod an reel. DeltaDawg (Dawg as in Washington Husky)
 
The San Joaquin settlement is good news. It's been a long time coming. The way I understand it is complete closure of San Joaquin flow at Friant Dam caused San Joaquin Chinook to become extinct by the late 1940's. There is plenty of evidence that some of those Chinook spawned successfully in the warmer waters of the San Joaquin below Friant. The Sacramento Chinook are very similar to the extinct San Joaquin salmon, so biologists are pretty confident that a new strain of warm water spawning Chinook can be bred from the Sacramento fish and eventually introduced to the San Joaquin.

Some Chinook and steelhead still make their way into the San Joaquin in very small numbers, but they are off limits for fishing.

Once the water is flowing again, there are some other things that have to happen to the San Joaquin before Chinook can be established. Once flow was shut off, the San Joaquin silted up. That's one of the reasons you have flooding along the lower San Joaquin during heavy rains: the riverbed is so silted up it can't move enough water for flood control. Silting also destroyed gravel beds the Chinook need for spawning. Some of those will have to be restored.

A hatchery can be put up near Friant Dam too. It's possible to have system like the one operating along the Sacramento River where you have a combination of hatchery salmon and a small number of wild Chinook.
 
This is fantastic - nice to see some good news once in a while! It seems like all they want to do is rape the poor delta, and it is such a beautifull place. Congradulations to all that helped!

Jim
 
San Joaquin River restoration legislation shelved (11:19 a.m.) - 11/18/2008
FRESNO (AP) — Federal lawmakers are shelving their plans to push forward a bill to restore salmon to the San Joaquin River before the year's end.
 
No, you can't just turn on the water faucet at Friant Dam and have the salmon return as if by magic in just one year.

Nothing here about the hatcheries that have to be built, the riverbed that has to be restored or the Chinook spawning grounds that have to be re-engineered. Duh...

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/244/story/56020.html
 
According to the article referenced by yzer, under this bill salmon would not be returning until 2013.
 
I guess that means no celebration potluck with salmon salad sandwiches, crab dip, salmon bisque, warm salmon with tortelini, lemon merangine pie. The canned salmon was expensive at Costco anyway. I am glad I didn't buy that heavy duty rod and reel last weekend.
A couple of years ago when I was just reading and not posting to this forum I read that you folks got together for chicken and dumplings and posted a group picture of the dinner, I was looking forward to meeting you.
 
When you think about it 2013 isn't that far away. It will take a lot of work to get a run restored by then. I'll look out for some details on how they plan on doing it.
 
DD---we can still get together if you'll organize it for us! We don't have to have salmon and we don't have to wait until 2013! It was a nice evening at the Spindrift even though I ended up getting towed home the next morning...... Phil did an excellent job!'
 
Is anyone else suspicious of Feinstein's support of restoring the SJ river, along with her support of a PC? She seems to have been purchased by big ag recently, so I think there might be more to this that we currently know?

If the canal goes in, most of that nasty San Joaquin river effluent (ag waste, sewer plant discharge, etc) will flow through the Delta and out the Gate, where as it currently makes it's way to the suction of the water export pumps in the south Delta, and is removed from the system.

Also, I'm sure the CVP will get back that water lost at Friant somehow - they'rer not in the business to generously give away water they've had control over for several decades.

And has everyone read where the fish Terminator Arnie, is trying to link removal of the Klamath dams, to installing more dams in the Delta, and the installation of the PC?
____________________________
Is Schwarzenegger Trading Klamath Dam Removal for the Destruction of the Delta?

by Dan Bacher

Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger never misses an opportunity to push his environmentally destructive and enormously costly $ 9.3 billion water bond proposal to build two new reservoirs and "improved conveyance" - the peripheral canal.

True to his role as the "Fish Terminator," the Governor used a press conference that he appeared at with Interior Secretary Dirk Kempthorne and Mike Chrisman, California Secretary of Resources, in Los Angeles Friday to promote building new dams in California the day after an agreement in principle was reached between Oregon, California, PacifiCorp and the Bush administration over Klamath Dam removal.

"We are here today to celebrate something really big, which is a great victory for the environment of California," Schwarzenegger gushed. "With the Klamath River Agreement we are making actual history, because this will be the biggest dam removal project ever in the history and the biggest one in the United States. So this is great for California and this is really great also for Oregon."

He then touted the tentative pact as a consensus-style, win-win situation for the Klamath Basin. "And I'm very proud that everyone here worked together, because something like this cannot be done if not everyone is cooperating and working together, if it is environmentalists, if it is the farmers, the Native American tribes, salmon fishermen, the state and the federal agencies, the PacifiCorp, everyone, and I want to thank them all for their great cooperation. Everyone cares so much about the magnificent river and also the water quality and the fish population, and that is why this came about," Schwarzenegger gushed.

After making that statement, of course, Schwarzenegger just had to promote building new dams and sub-surface water storage, although he didn't specifically mention "improved conveyance" - the peripheral canal. In numerous press conferences and photo opportunities over the past two years, Schwarzenegger and Senator Dianne Feinstein have campaigned for a water bond measure that would two new unneeded reservoirs, Temperance Flats on the San Joaquin River and Sites on the west side of the Sacramento Valley, in spite of the fact that water in both watersheds is dramatically over-appropriated already and the chances are that these dams would never fill anyway.

"Now, let me just say that we all know that we have a very serious water problem in California and, of course, we want to make sure that we build more water storage, above-the-ground and below-the-ground water storage, but they have to be strategically located," stated Schwarzenegger, changing from his role as the "Green Governor" to "Arnold the Dam Builder."

"So this is why it is important that we continue building those, even though we want to take four down," Scharzenegger claimed. "I've been worried, of course, about our declining salmon population, and with this agreement here we are setting the stage for the return of the historic salmon runs on the Klamath River."

Missed in most media reports of the agreement is Schwarzenegger's expectation that this agreement could become a "quid pro quo" to sacrifice the California Delta fish and Central Valley chinook salmon species, now in an unpredented state of collapse, for removing dams on the Klamath.

A coalition of recreational anglers, commercial fishermen, Indian Tribes, conservationists and Delta farmers is strongly opposing Schwarzenegger's campaign to put a water bond including a peripheral canal and more dams on the ballot this coming year. Although massive opposition to dams and the canal prevented the Governor and allies from putting the proposal on the November ballot, dam and canal opponents fear that he and his corporate agribusiness backers will try to get the water bond on the June ballot.

Supporters of fish restoration in the Central Valley and the Delta fear that the water bond will result in building the infrastructure to increase water exports out of the Delta to Southern California and drainage-impaired land on the west side of the San Joaquin Valley. Central Valley chinook salmon, Delta smelt, longfin smelt, threadfin shad, striped bass and other fish populations have crashed in recent years, due to record increases in water exports, declining water quality and other factors. More dams and a peripheral canal would only exacerbate the deplorable condition of Delta fish and Central Valley chinook salmon, fish advocates point out.

The Yurok, Karuk and Klamath Tribes, California Trout, Trout Unlimited, the Pacific Coast Federation of Fishermen's Associations, American Rivers, two farming organizations and other conservation groups are touting the pact, after several long years of negotiations in the parallel Klamath Basin Restoration Agreement process, as being an important first step toward dam removal and the restoration of the declining salmon runs of the Klamath River.

The Hoopa Valley Tribe, North Coast Environmental Center and Oregon Wild are opposing the agreement for a variety of reasons, most notably because the agreement is non-binding and unenforceable and could become a bailout for Klamath Basin agriculture.

Friends of the River Questions Pact

Friends of the River, a statewide conservation organization based in Sacramento, is critical of the agreement for a multitude of reasons, including the timing of the agreement's release as well as its controversial content, including the linking of Klamath Restoration to Schwarzenegger's water bond proposal.

"The actual agreement did not become available to all Klamath settlement stakeholders until the afternoon of November 12 when members of the Klamath Settlement Group received a briefing from state and federal officials and PacifiCorp," said Steven Evans and Kelly Catlett of Friends of the River (FOR) in a statement Friday. "The agreement has not been approved by numerous other stakeholders, including Friends of the River, that have been involved in the federal relicensing of the Klamath River hydro dams for several years. It remains purely a product produced and endorsed by a sub-set of parties."

The organization is also wary of the many conditions that need to be met for dam removal to take place. These conditions include:

• Full protection for PacifiCorp from all liability.

• Placing a $200 million cap on dam removal costs to be recovered from Oregon and California ratepayers.

• A commitment from the State of California to provide $250 million in dam removal costs through a water bond to be approved by state voters.

• A commitment to attempt federal legislation to authorize and fund the controversial $1 billion Klamath Basin Settlement deal, which would provide water and power guarantees to Klamath Basin farmers.

• Agreement by the states to forego exercising their 401 permitting authority under the Clean Water Act to reduce polluted discharge from the dams.

• State legislation bypassing the authority of the respective state utility commissions concerning ratepayer cost recovery.

• Putting the FERC relicensing process on hold until a federal study is completed by 2012 that will determine whether the benefits of dam removal justify the cost.

"Although Friends of the River believes that a concession in writing from PacifiCorp to remove the dams is a step in the right direction, we have significant concerns about the workability of the agreement in principle," Evans and Catlett said. "Foremost, the agreement has so many prerequisites that MUST occur before dam removal can happen that it would likely never result in the removal of any dams."

Echoing my concerns that Schwarzenegger is trying to link Klamath Dam removal to the building of new dams in the Central Valley, Evans and Catlett noted that California will likely rely on a proposed water bond to be approved by the voters in 2009 to provide the $250 million for river restoration outlined in the agreement.

"Conservationists will oppose this water bond if it also includes billions of dollars to build new or enlarge existing dams in California," they stated. "Coupled with the fact that voters may be leery of approving a multi-billion bond as the state economy continues to melt down, the prospect of the state to meet its obligation under the agreement seems dubious."

They also said the agreement in principle does not spell out who will be responsible for dam removal costs above and beyond the $450 million that would supposedly be covered by ratepayers and the State of California.

"The assumption that the federal government will produce the legislation and authorizations needed to implement the Klamath Basin Settlement is also questionable," they contended. "Opposition has delayed by more than two years the congressional approval of similar legislation to implement the San Joaquin River Restoration Settlement. With a price tag that is four times larger than the San Joaquin Settlement and given the declining state of the economy, it seems likely that any Klamath Basin Settlement legislation would be subject to similar attacks, particularly since many groups in Oregon and California oppose the Basin Settlement."

The federal and state agencies hope to come to a final agreement with PacifiCorp in June 2009. The process will include other stakeholders moving forward, but in what capacity is still undetermined at this time, according to Evans and Catlett.

They are also concerned that interim measures adopted until dam removal takes place will be not sufficient to protect salmon and steelhead populations hammered by low, warm water conditions nor protect people, fish, animals from the toxic algae blooms created by PacifiCorp's Iron Gate and Copco reservoirs on the Klamath. While recreational and commercial salmon fishing this year was closed in ocean waters off California and Oregon, due to the collapse of Central Valley fall run chinook salmon, in 2006 commercial salmon fishing was severely restricted because of the Klamath River salmon decline spurred by the Bush administration-engineered fish kills of 2002.

"It is unclear whether interim operations measures adopted after the final agreement is signed in June 2009 will be sufficient to reduce pollution in the Klamath River and adequately protect salmon and steelhead," they concluded. "But these are the measures that will be in place until the dams are actually removed."

I have worked closely on both the Klamath and California Delta restoration battles with recreational anglers, commercial fishermen, California Indian Tribes, farmers and environmentalists -and I greatly respect and support all of the stakeholders for the enormous time, money and effort that they have put into the battle to bring down Warren Buffett's Klamath River dams.

I agree with FOR that the unprecedented concession in writing from PacifiCorp to remove the dams on Thursday is a step in the right direction. I also agree with Evans and Catlett in their critical assessment of the Klamath agreement, particularly in regard to the apparent trade off between Klamath dam removal and the construction of new dams that Schwarzenegger and the Bush administration are pushing.

The final agreement is set to be signed by the states, federal government and PacifiCorp in June 2009. This gives us time to put intense and unrelenting political pressure on the incoming Obama administration to remove any connection to a canal/dam water bond in this agreement, as well strike out other troubling provisions of the tentative agreement.

This is a non binding agreement only and hopefully a more fish-friendly and environmentally-proactive administration in Washington willl craft an improved final agreement that doesn't trade dam removal for new dams and a peripheral canal - that doesn't restore the Klamath River at the expense of the Sacramento-San Joaquin River Delta, the largest and most significant estuary on the West Coast. We must restore both the Delta and Klamath River at the same time - and must emphasize to the incoming Obama administration the urgent need to restore the declining salmon and other fish populations in both watersheds!

___________________
Incredible...
 
I support saving the Klamath and have done so for many years. But I do not agree to trade the Klamath for the Delta. Klamath River waters do not reach any part of the Delta or the tributaries which eventually feed water into the Delta. It is not apple for apples, but rather apples for oranges.

Mitch, IMHO Feinstein is pandering to the SoCal interests because of their political strength. She needs them to support her for reelection.
 
Here is some interesting math.
Current Toy noted as Ag, he pays $33 per Acre foot for water.
Wikepedia- It is defined by the volume of one acre of surface area to a depth of one foot. Since the area of one acre is defined as 66 by 660 feet (a chain by a furlong) then the volume of an acre-foot is exactly 43,560 cubic feet. Alternatively, this is approximately 325,851.4 U.S. gallons or 1,233.5 kL (or m³).

From a cal water survey article - ( http://ww.pennnet.com/display_artic...ne/1/Survey-Examines-California-Water-Rates-/ ) Among the study’s findings is that the average residential monthly charge, for 1,500 cubic feet of water a month, increased from $30.33 in 2003 to $36.39 in 2006. This is a total 16.7 percent increase during the three-year period.

Ag- $33/43,560 Cu Ft ($.0000757/CuFt)
Residential $36.39/1,500 Cu Ft ($.02426/CuFt)

Summary - Residential water is 320 times more expensive than Ag water.

Is this right or did I screw up?

Another interesting fact from Wikepedia on water usage: As a rule of thumb in U.S. water management, one acre-foot is taken to be the planned water usage of a suburban family household, annually.[1] In the desert South West, where water conservation is followed and often enforced, a typical family uses only about 0.25 acre-feet of water per year.[2]
 
It sounded too far out of wack - I think it must be 32 times more...
I added a decimal place in the Ag number - it should have been $.000757/CuFt
Also note that the water usage report was from '06 and the rates are probably higher now for residential.
Jim
 
I pay a minimum of $40/mo for my water. I have 1/2 acres of land, but do not water anything except my container plants several times a week during the summer and fall. I have no grass or garden to maintain.

If I use more than the minimum, I am charged more. In 2007 during the summer I usually paid $60 a month. This year to conserve water, I stopped hosing down my driveway and just would blow the debris off as needed. My water bill this summer never went over the minimum! So I saved $20/mo just by not washing down my driveway. That was easy!

end of ramble.......
 
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