Diesel engine & Survey

firstlight

Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2005
RO Number
16749
Messages
222
I will be in the Ft. Lauderdale area of Fla. looking at a couple of 37'ft. Tiara open boats, approx. yrs. 1998 to 2000. Hours from 400 to 1000
QUESTIONS: 3208TA Caterpillar 435 hp VS Cummins 6c3ta 420 hp. opinions on better motors
Do I need a seperate surveyor for engines
Can anyone rec. a Fla. surveyor.
THANKS I apprec. any in put.
 
Yes on engine survey, all things being equal I prefer the Cummins but both are good. Maintenance and how they were run is more important than hours at 10 years.
 
Sometimes I think an oil sample should be taken before the survey.
 
I had Cummins Power South do a separate engine survey on my 450c's when I bought it in Ft. Meyers. Cummins will also be able to give you a history of warranty work performed on the engines. They were great to deal with.
 
If I go with a vessel with Cummins I will contact them. What was the cost for twin engines? Thank You for input
 
I spent about $450 to have a separate engine survey on my Cummins power plants and the Onan genny. It may not have been necessay but when you are spending that much money to buy a toy a few more $$$$$ is not really a big deal for the peace of mind.
 
For both engines and the genny total cost was $700.
 
what is the quality of your local Cat/Cummins marine support staff....that would weigh very heavy for me. I have Cummins, no complains, BUT,,,,I did realize that the best support comes from a factory trained person, forget the person
that claims to be a diesel mech, no matter the make!
 
At that HP level I would go with the Cummings. I have 3208T's and they are very good engines but at the 435hp rating they are at their HP limit and are overstressed. Most of the 3208 failures are on the 435's. The 3208na and T's will last a very long time.
 
quote:

Originally posted by padave

At that HP level I would go with the Cummings. I have 3208T's and they are very good engines but at the 435hp rating they are at their HP limit and are overstressed. Most of the 3208 failures are on the 435's. The 3208na and T's will last a very long time.






This was my thoughts exactly when I saw the post, but chose not to answer originally since I don't own CAT 3208's. Thats the highest horsepower I think for the 3208's. Always heard that the cooling system on the 3208's is something that will last a long time, but need to be stringent on routine maintenance with items related to cooling. The 375 T's seem to last a good while with good performance (these are the models I've seen), and from what I've seen and heard, the 320's are long lasting, durable motors (no experience, just what I've read). Just a quick search on Google returned some owners who say that the 375s will provide much better life than 425s.

BUT, your other motor is a 8.3L block putting out the same horsepower if I'm not mistaking? That seems like really pushing the upper bounds of HP/Liter rule that I try to go by.
 
being an inline 6 the Cummins is simpler but the cat does have more cubes, for that reason I have never understood the frequent comments about avoiding 425 hp cat versions.
 
quote:

Originally posted by pdecat

being an inline 6 the Cummins is simpler but the cat does have more cubes, for that reason I have never understood the frequent comments about avoiding 425 hp cat versions.






When you research the 3208 Cat you will find a history of the 435hp's having many more issues than the lower Hp versions. It's not about cubic inches but more about design, materials used in construction. Any thing with more HP is going to have more cylinder pressure which puts more load on all other components in the engine.

The 3208 wasn't initially designed with high HP in mind. It was made for medium duty Ford trucks. As with everything people wanted more, so things were added to increase HP, compression, turbo's, aftercoolers,etc. The 435's were the highest HP with some semblance of reliability. Anything much more and Cat would have Alot of warranty problems.
 
We have 3208TA at 435 in our 50 ft 40,000 lb plus flybridge boat and have been very happy with them. We have put 700 hours in 3 years with no problems (total 1400 hours). One thing in particular I like is that they are mechanically injected and have a much simpler and reliable engine control system. Their HP per liter and HP per pound is much less than many of the newer high reving or higher HP turbo diesels.

I would think that in a 37 ft Tiara these would work very well and you could cruise at 20 knts plus and run the engines at 60% or less of WOT fuel burn. In our boat we cruise at 20 knts and the engines are at 60-65% WOT loaded. These are also very fuel efficient at cruise. Of course the hull design counts, but we burn 28 to 30 GPH at cruise.

I think the reliability problems were the result of two things. First, you must keep up on the seawater coolant system. And the aftercoolers need to be inspected every three or four years depending on use and age and replaced if needed. These I think were a problem and some failures were the result of the aftercooler and a metal mismatch in the connector pipe that was addressed, although several manufacturers have had aftercooler problems over the years. The other contributor I think is that some installations were in too heavy of boats (over propped)and these owners ran their motors way too hard and if the cooling systems started to clog, then big trouble could occur. Newer boats tend to have bigger engines relatively speaking, but they are also more expensive several ways.

There are many 3208s out there and good CAT service and reasonable parts pricing are readily available.

To get an engine survey, I would call Pantropic in Ft Lauderdale and get a full instrumented engine survey. It is not cheap, but money well spent. I did this and you get complete engine and cooling system performance numbers,
 
yes, call Bill Cosbie inforb2@gr5tbillcosbiemarinesurvey.com

local, knowledgable & honest. he can organize the oil sampling and if neccesary get a complete engine survey performed.

Bill owned a marina and does alot of surveys around the greater ft. lauderdale area.

good luck with the pending purchase.
 
Question on oil sample/analysis from a prospective diesel buyer:

Is there a minimum amount of run time after an oil change for the analysis to be meaningful? It strikes me that if were done close to an oil change, it would be much less indicative of the engine(s) condition.

Where I am, a lot of boats are laid up or on the hard for the winter. Likely had the oil changed as part of winterizing.
 
Back
Top