Documentation Number Location

Greg is on the right track - just a couple of fine points: the tonnage that is referenced is not displacement of the vessel, rather a measure of the volume capacity of the boat - Greg's description is OK, just not the word displacement. A barge made of balsa wood and one made of steel could have the exact same dimensions and therefore the same tonnage. The steel barge would obviously weigh more, sit lower in the water and therefore have a greater displacement. But the tonnage measurement would be the same.

The quote you posted above is accurate. I find nothing contradictory about it. But, "at the option of the owner" could be clarified since it may be the owner's lender that requires it as in your case. "Some states require documented vessels to also display a state registration decal" - That's the decal, not the numbers. Nowhere in that statement does it say the state numbers are to be displayed, only the decal.
 
My lender required it.

Now I understand the 5 net ton part.

I'm going to call the "local" USCG station to see what they say for me in WI. I don't know if I'll get thru to them this afternoon or tomorrow but I'll post here to let you all know what they told me. Hopefully, I'll get a hard copy too to share.

quote:
Originally posted by Sea Gull

The quote you posted above is accurate. I find nothing contradictory about it. But, "at the option of the owner" could be clarified since it may be the owner's lender that requires it as in your case. "Some states require documented vessels to also display a state registration decal" - That's the decal, not the numbers. Nowhere in that statement does it say the state numbers are to be displayed, only the decal.

Click to expand...
 
SLW, yeah it does, like you said, states may require a documented vessel to be registered in the state but they may not required to be numbered (state registration number,not to be confused with documentation number). You're right, the Fed is saying that the state can't make you show state reg #s on your hull. Seagull, you're right, it is volume (cubic). I knew that and had a brain fart!
Greg
 
I'll throw my two cents in. From what I understand that the best reason for having a vessel documented is that if you take it to a foreign country and it is stolen or other problems occur, that country has to deal with our federal government not just a state.
Maryland makes you pay an excise tax if you are in their waters for more than 90 days( 5% of the value of the boat) and you get a sticker to display.
 
Boy, having just gone through this let me tell you some of caveats about boating where we are...

First of all, you can not sell a boat without a Nebraska Title, to get the title, we had to show the MSO to the clerk, pay our taxes etc... without a title, a boat is not marketable in nebraska...to get a state registration sticker and numbers, you must have a title, even though documented boats in Nebraska are not required to be titled or display a sticker...now wait this gets better...

Not our county treasurer, river law enforcement, etc, knows what documentation is, and if you are on the river without a reg number and sticker, you will be pulled over repeatedly, keep in mind, current is close to 3mph, not fun to try and avoid things will be boarded.

Our lender (wells fargo) required documentation, would not settle on a registered and perfected lien on the title they issued.

Unfortunately, we have no other choice than to have a documented boat and to also display reg#'s and a state sticker...

So the question is, if no one knows it, and we have our name/port on transom, like everyone else does that is NOT documented...how would anyone ever know you're documented anyway.

I would have just as soon been just documented, but i recall a few other boats we've had that we ran a week or two without numbers displayed and were pulled over about 5 times each weekend.

Keep in mind, at anytime, we have Iowa and Nebraska county (multiple) sheriffs, DNR from both states, CG and auxilary patroling our river, even Omaha police from time to time...

We had no other option than to do it this way. I've called about everyone (authorities/trasurer/state DNR) and they all agreed this would be the best route.

I'm still looking for where it says reg numbers can not be displayed in my Fed regs book...does someone have that quoted...

I envy those of you who get to boat where bigger boats are the norm, and all agencies are aware of all the laws/regs...must be nice.
 
I placed a documentation "board" in the bilge that has the numbers engraved in it. It's made from clear cedar with 15 coats of spare varnish and mounted to the bulkhead that separates the salon from the bilge using 5200. It's easily seen by opening the day hatch. CG seemed to except it without comment.
 
Did this many years ago. I picked out a PERMANENT bulkhead and behind the cabin cushions, I cut the numbers in with a router. With the cushions in the numbers were out of sight. Inspector was happy...
 
Lou, go to the website for the National Vessel Documentation Center and read the regs on documented vessels. Clearly stated there that documented vessels are not permitted to display State Registration numbers. I boat on the Ohio River where big boats are not the norm. I have never had registration #s on any of my last 3 boats and have never been questioned by any local authorities. If they can figure it out here in WV, they should be able to figure it out where you are.
Greg
 
Hi again Greg,

I've been on the site many times, but do not see where it specifically says that it is prohibited to have state reg numbers on the boat, perhaps I'm looking in the wrong area?.....Could you post a link, or just email me at Kastlercreative at aol dot com, when you get a chance?

Would be nice to have onboard... and before I spend more money on vinyl lettering.

Thanks Greg!
 
Lou - Maybe this will help?

http://www.uscg.mil/hq/gm/vdoc/faq.htm#22

IS A DOCUMENTED VESSEL EXEMPT FROM STATE JURISDICTION?
No, all documented vessels must comply with the laws of the state in which they are operated. The vessel's document must be shown to state law enforcement personnel upon their demand. States may require documented vessels to be registered (but not numbered) and to display state decals showing that they have complied with state requirements.
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Thanks Joe,

Yes, I've read that, it's just that I don't see where it specifically says it is a violation of CG rules to also have a state reg number on the hull as well... I've searched everywhere and can not find anything that definitively says that.

Personally, I'd just as soon not have a state#, but we'll be hassled all the time and that's kind of embarrassing when you have friends/clients on board.
 
Joe has it Lou, It says states may require registration of a documented vessel but they are not permitted to require them to be numbered.
Greg
 
Right Greg, maybe I'm reading it wrong...but I guess what I'm looking for is where in the USCG regs does it say it is illegal to also have state reg numbers on the documented boat? Since I plan on/must do both...

That's kind of my concern, because the way it is written, it just says "states may require reg sticker, but may not require them to be numbered", that does not really say if it is illegal to have both, by USCG standards does it?... it just says states "may" not require you to have numbers, nothing about having them on in addition to being a documented boat.

Does anyone else read it this way...or am I just losing it...
 
I'm with you Lou. I already quoted that site. That particular verbiage does NOT prohibit registration numbers on the hull, it just prohibits states from REQUIRING them.
 
I give up guys, you should call the National Vessel Documentation Center. It's in Fallingwater West Virginia. Lou, why do you feel you "must do both"?
Greg
 
You guys can ignore or try to rewrite the US Code if you want - the fine will be yours to pay, not ours.
 
Hi Greg,

It's up in my earlier post... basically, while documented boats do not require registration in Nebraska, none of the authroities understand what a documented boat is, so you get stopped, repeatedly since you are bearing no reg numbers... see the post a few lines up...it's just a goofy catch 22, and I don;t want to be pulled over 3 times a day all summer long...

Thanks for all your input Greg....
 
Les,

are you basing that on the quoted material above, from the USCG website, or have you seen other wording, etc, that expressly prohibits this... I sure would be interested to know, as I could make this an issue to the lender and avoid finalizing the documentation...

I just don't interpt, what is above, as saying it is prohibited to also display state reg numbers...

Can you point me somewhere where it would be spelled out to say that Les? Or is someone here in the USCG that may have material I'm unaware of?

Thank you,
Lou
 
Lou, I guess I don't understand your problem - Nebraska doesn't require documented boats to be registered with the state. Therefore, you don't need to worry about either the sticker or the numbers. The chances of you talking your lender out of the documentation requirement are slim, at best. A state title is not a substitute for a national preferred ship's mortgage.

However, the CG does not permit numbers on documented vessels, just stickers, if they do have to be registered with the state. Florida law, for example, says

The registration number issued to an undocumented vessel is to be painted or permanently attached to both sides of the bow (forward half) of the vessel and must be in block letters and numerals at least three inches high. The registration number must read from left to right, must contrast in color with the hull and be maintained in legible condition.

A decal issued to a federally documented vessel may be affixed to a window or windshield on the port side. Any decal for a previous year's registration must be removed from the vessel.

Trust me on this, Lou. The CG doesn't care how you interpret the law. They will do the interpreting.
 
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