Moving up! Maybe

hackalar

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Heres the million dollar questions.. Looking for thoughts here..

35 debt free including home. Make decent money.
I have a 36 foot Silverton paid for. (going up for sale)
We have two kids 11 and 5. With our current boat being a cruiser we don't have enough room. We are thinking about moving up to a 40 foot ish carver from 2000 to 2005. Found some great deals out there. around 130 to 160.

The questions:
1) Should we go for diesel?
2) what company would you recommend financing with?
3) would not having thrusters kill the deal?

Btw did I mention I have a boat and 36 foot motor home for sale? :-)
 
Bobby,
Looks like you are on the TN River- we are based out of Chattanooga at Island Cove Marina (MM 477.5 on the river).

You can't go wrong with diesel. Safer, better handling, better fuel economy, etc. As well, when you go to resell, it will be easier. That being said, a lot of the 40' aft cabin carvers are gasers so not the end of the world. It also depends on how many hours you put on the boat annually, etc. Diesels don't like to sit.

There are lots of options for financing. You can talk to the finance department at boat US which can be easy to work with or places like tridentfunding (dot) com, etc.

Thrusters are a fun toy but not necessary, particularly if you get diesel. Most use their thruster the first 2 weeks they own their boat and then they get little use.

Congrats on the possible move up- it is a great time to be a buyer!
 
Listen to Tony ... he knows what he speaks of. Personally I would go for diesel poer if a all possible....thrustes are nice, but not a deal killer.
 
+1.

The only thing I would add is while diesels will add to the sale price, they add to the purchase price as well. In the end, IMO, it's kind of a wash unless you are putting on 100 plus hours per year on the boat. Then diesels tilt the scales dramatically.
 
Would some of the diesel owners here comment on what he should budget for annual maintenance and occasional repair - say somthing like replacing an oil or water pump?
 
Bliss,
That is a hard # to budget. I put over 200 hours last year on my trawler and the only expense was oil changes and putting in a new impeller when I bought the boat. To be safe though, I say budget enough to replace an engine then anything less than that seems cheap. :) We've got a mechanic that specializes in the brand diesels my new pilothouse has that is coming in at the end of this month. I may need new turbos- that will be $7k, +/-, if that is the case.
 
Well in my first year of diesel ownership I am running at $21k. Hoping it is less for 2012.

Personally, if I were buying now, I would look at Walters' or Bill's boats. Both are gas but well worth the money for what your getting. And with more or less a documented history on these pages so there is not nearly the amount of "bite you in the arse" suprises to happen.

Diesels are good if your putting in a bunch of hours but also come with a pretty hefty price tag sometimes.

edit - like Tony said. Keep enough in the bank for a new motor. Anything else is cheap.
 
I would wait until after the election. You never know what will happen to the economy if Obama wins in November. You have a 36' boat that's paid for, why take on any debt now. How much do you think you will get for your current boat and the motor home? But id you do buy a new one, go for diesel in a boat that big. But they are more expensive to fix.
 
There are a couple of late model (20XX) Carver 40ish aft cabins at my marina. Both big block gassers. Both travel at trawler speed by choice of the owners. The fuel consumption is not that bad. Those can be had for around 85-100K. To get the same size boat with diesels at that price, you would have to drop down several years in age. Gas Mechs here are around 65-80 per hour depending on if they are strictly mobile or if they have a shop to maintain. I don't know how much diesel is but I know they are a lot more.

The only person I know of on this board that would have benefitted from the economic jump from gas to diesel in a 40 footer is BillyIII. But again, he puts a TON of hours on his boat and uses it at cruise speed a lot. He may chime in.
 
Why is it that everyone on here is always so hang up on production boats, for the money you are talking about there many not so well known brands/makes out there that are 100x the boat, better materials used, nicer woodwork, just better build al a round.

Cor
 
Bobby,
How many hours do you put on your boat a year? I've been on 40 foot boats with gas and also diesel, hands down diesel is better. If you put over a 100 hours a year go diesel. I know repair is a concern but gas engines in a 40 foot boat won't last long if your putting over a 100 hours a year on them.
Rob
 
One more thing, are you really sure you want to take on a loan for an other boat, I been there... never again.

Cor
 
With a twin engine the bow thruster is a non issue. Gas or diesel depends on cruising habits & availability. If a typical weekend does not take you far from your marina then diesel is hard to justify. An awful lot of gas can be bought for the difference in price between a diesel & gas boat.

If you are cruising inland waterways buy a boat designed with inland waterway cruising in mind, not a boat built with a bit of offshore transits in mind.

With growing kids a double cabin boat is almost a must, the second cabin having single berths.

With all that said & if you are in the Chattanooga area, a great boat for you may be closer than you think.

http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1989/Harbor-Master-450-Coastal-2060784/Knoxville/TN/United-States

Diesels are rare but they do exist in these.
 
You asked three specific questions in your OP. To the first I would say absolutely yes, go with diesels if at all possible. We put around 250 hrs per year on ours and like to cruise at 20 knts, so the fuel efficiency really makes a big difference. But, at least as important to me is that diesel is much safer IMO. In our boat, or any 45 or 50 ft you will likely find the genrator runs a lot although it depends on where you are. But with full size refrig and ice maker, and ACs, and TV and sat dish, it runs a lot and I am much more confortable with a diesel generator. In the Bahams for example, power outages occur and you sometimes have to run the genset a few days at a time. Also, the big props and low speed torque make docking and low speed maneuvering much easier than with smaller gas props.

The question of diesel ownership and repair costs, however, I disagree with some of the earlier comments. While diesel rebuilds do cost way more than gas engines, the key to longevity is maintanence. The sea water system, the aftercoolers in particular, are crtiical to keep in perfect condition. Similar is to not overprop your engines, they must reach rated RPMs at load. I think it is also critical to run the engines on long cruises at 65% load or less and always strive for 30 to 35% of WOT fuel burn over a years run time. We put 250 hrs on our boat per year for three years in a row now and have only had standard repair items except for a preventative, but costly replacement set of aftercoolers. We have our props tuned annually, bottom kept clean, rated RPMs at WOT reached, routine annual oil changes, impellor changes, heat exchangers descaled every year or two, etc. and have had three seasons of reliable diesel engine performance on a boat that was 9 years old when we bought her.

For financing, this is agreat time to put some of the purchase price on financing with rates below 4% depending on the loan details and credit scores.

Thrusters are nice, and you could always have them installed after the fact although that could be expensive. I use our bow thruster from time to time when docking sometimes just to ease in when alongside docking in some wind or current conditions or to allow the person on the bow to throw lines on a pylon. But I test my bow thruster almost every time before docking to make sure it is working, and also cause it is good to use it regularly as all marine systems, especially mechanical ones, like regular use.

I also would comment on your boat choice. We moved from a 30 ft express cruiser to a 50 ft flybridge and love it. We spend many more nights per year on our boat. In fact I have noticed that at many marinas, the boats in the 45 to 60 ft range get the most use as far as hours spent on the boat, although not necessarily hours spent out on the water. So if you want to spend lots nights on the boat with two kids, the bigger the better if it fits in your budget. The other thing I have come to believe is that money spent up front on a high quality boat is money very well spent. On the higher quality boats, construction methods are better, everything last longer, and all of the many support systems are made from the highest quality system manufacturers and require far fewer repairs making boating much more enjoyable. There are few things in life that I have found quality to be more important than in boats due to their extreme corrosive environment, irregular use patterns,and the physical beating a boat takes out on the water.
 
Cor,

You are correct. There are also the Polsillipo and Mochi horror stories of old as well. Add to that unless the boat has engines that a local Mech is familiar with, that too will drive up the cost of maintenance.

IMHO, Euro boats / yachts in general are built and used totally different than US; at least in southern Italy. The boats are built for outdoor enjoyment like wine, conversation, a game of cards and peace and quiet at anchor. The interiors, while elegant, are more utilitarian in nature. Americans on the other hand like their A/C and TV and electronics. I fall in the middle of those extremes somewhere.

BTW, I saw the Hi-Tech 50 at the Genoa Boat Show in 1990. It was as classic then as it is now.
 
Hacalar, we moved up last year into a Carver 356. It is a gas powered. MY. We have 3 kids and it works great for the family. We bought one from Maine but were close on one in Alabama. It is still listed on yachtsouth.com website. It is a 1999 and in great shape. Seller was motivated last year. One thing I will say is don't be afraid to make offers you fell are low. It is a buyers market for sure. I would have bought this boat in Alabama but the transportation cost were prohibitive. If you live in the area,this is a great boat.
We don't have a bow thruster and as a new large boat owner, I wish I did. I'm learning but for an anxiety reliever, it would be nice. After market cost 7-9k.

As far as waiting for any reason....how long will the kids be young? Live now.
 
quote:

Originally posted by Woodsong

Bliss,
That is a hard # to budget. I put over 200 hours last year on my trawler and the only expense was oil changes and putting in a new impeller when I bought the boat. To be safe though, I say budget enough to replace an engine then anything less than that seems cheap. :) We've got a mechanic that specializes in the brand diesels my new pilothouse has that is coming in at the end of this month. I may need new turbos- that will be $7k, +/-, if that is the case.






Get a separate quote for the parts from a couple of sources. Rebuilds should be considered. This sounds expensive.

As far as moving up goes, diesel, no thrusters, and the cheapest interest you can get. Think about what you really want to do with it and for how long. For example if the boat has a washer dryer (stacked not combined) that is a huge plus.
Dinette with a family is also a major positive.
If you intend to move up and keep it long term, consider something a bit larger if you can. This way while you are earning well, you get that hurdle done with. The kids will tire of the boat before you will.
As they say, you can borrow for education, cars, and etc. but you cannot borrow for retirement. Consider the effects on that as well.
 
quote:

Originally posted by jmeirhofer

Well in my first year of diesel ownership I am running at $21k. Hoping it is less for 2012.

Personally, if I were buying now, I would look at Walters' or Bill's boats. Both are gas but well worth the money for what your getting. And with more or less a documented history on these pages so there is not nearly the amount of "bite you in the arse" suprises to happen.

Diesels are good if your putting in a bunch of hours but also come with a pretty hefty price tag sometimes.

edit - like Tony said. Keep enough in the bank for a new motor. Anything else is cheap.






Looks like my boat is sold, but Bills boat would be another great choice. I would look at a boat like mine, you say you have a Silverton express, I thought they only made a 34 express?? Point being is 2004 0r newer on a 34 now called 36 is a huge boat because it is a two level boat. Your price range is right there for this boat. As far as diesel vs gas, truth be told, if you are doing less than 100 hours a season, most will argue less than 150 hours a season, you are certainly not a candidate for diesel, especially this size boat.

Just my 2C

Walter

PS, thrusters, had bow and stern on my boat, but will do a big DITTO to Woodsongs opinion, Please don't ask Pascal about his opinion :)
 
quote:

Originally posted by Bliss

Would some of the diesel owners here comment on what he should budget for annual maintenance and occasional repair - say somthing like replacing an oil or water pump?






I posted this in another thread back in December:

Ours are Cummins [450Cs... and] for each engine ours is like this, generally once/year:

- a spin-on oil filter, ~$53 (Volvo uses more filters)
- a spin-on coolant filter, ~$12
- 4.5 gals oil, ~$125
- a spin-on secondary fuel filter, ~$16
- a water pump impeller, ~$83
- 3 zincs, ~$12 each

Racor (primary fuel filter/fuel-water separator) and AirSep service tends to be just cleaning or draining (water), with new parts required only occasionally.

Coolant replacement is also generally a longer-term thing, every couple years or more.

Marine gear service would probably be similar to gasoline installations: change oil and filters.

-Chris
 
If I where you I would look for even older boats. Newer does not alway mean less problems. Was talking to an other boat owner last week, he has a 2005 Silverton and he was telling my one of his a/c unit broke and needs to be replaced and that he spend $27000 on repairs last year; 1 a/c unit and an engine overhaul. Point is his bout is a 2005 with only 200 hours on his Cummins engines. Later that day I pasted by his boat an he had the engines running and they where blowing blue smoke so you know there is more engine work coming up soon!

My point is look for a well build boat even if it is a little older it will still be a better deal in the long run than the newer production boat.

I never harp on it on this forum be I too am a yacht broker and I would advice you that if you are willing to spend $160,000 that if you look at boat posted in the low 200's you will find some very nice ones that with a little luck can be had for the money you are willing to spend.

Cor
 
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