No discharge zone?

Okay, I bit and wasted my time reading the article. You could have just said that NDZ's did not make sense since the Cities can't follow the rules. Nothing in the article specifically about boating.
 
Sorry I was unclear.

My frustration had to do with the emphasis placed on non-discharge from boats when apparently municipal sewage systems "regularly" over flow into the very same waters that we are regulated on.
 
True, everyplace I have lived they dump sewage from time to time. Huge amounts too. It's accidental. of course, and naturally nobody gets fired. Now should you make a mistake it off to court for you.
 
Yep, same issue on the Chesapeake Bay. Although we do not have an abundance of NDZ we do have a problem with water quality in the Bay due to algae blooms and the resultant lack of O2 causing huge dead zones. The problem is the nitrogen levels caused by runoff of fertilizers and silt from the agracultural businesses (farms) in Pennsylvania coming down the Susquahanna well as in Maryland and the pollution running into the harbor from the streets and overflowing/insufficient sewage treatment in Baltimore. It sure as heck ain't a boating thing!
 
You can find NDZ info here:

http://www.epa.gov/owow/oceans/regulatory/vessel_sewage/vsdnozone.html

We have the same problems in California with outdated plants discharging untreated sewage every winter.

Fortunately, no new NDZs have have been declared in California for more than twenty years. Offending plants have been fined, but only during the last few years. The push to get local districts to replace antiquated sewage plants is extremely frustrating. The most effective CA environmental groups involved with this issue understand the scale and impact of illegal sewage plant discharges compared to the reality of MSD I and III use on recreational boats. Boaters and environmentalists can be on the same page on this isue.
 
It is very rare to find an NDZ where there is any municipal run off in play. I tend to agree that banning Lectra San, et al is a little much, other than very fragile places like the Keys.

George
 
yzer:
SF bay ahs been dumped on for decades while cities like Sausalito pi$$ on a few boaters. Fining a city achieves nothing because only the citizens pay bu they weren’t involved. The responsible people are the plant operators and they suffer no punishment; probably all get raises.
A very public firing every time the plant dumps would get some attention.

george: I disagree, it happens everywhere, storms, plant failure, operator mistakes etc. darn near every area suffers every year or two.
 
1. Richardson Bay NDZ is near Sausalito. This is the only NDZ in the entire S.F. Bay/California Delta estuary.
2. The Sausalito-Marin City Sanitary District spills untreated sewage "accidentally" into Richardson Bay on a regular basis. The last was in February of this year.
3. Richardson Bay is a last stand for Bay Area oyster beds.
4. Sausalito had a problem with sewage from full-time anchored houseboats and boats.
5. I haven't seen "Sausalito pi$$ on a few boaters" since the 70's and 80's when the houseboat issue was first addressed.
 
If you say it it must be true but I remember that the area south of SFO discharged yearly as did Oakland and you mention Marin still does. I dont know what your point is since I claimed frequent dumping and you confirm this, at least in Marin. All of which supports the OP’s claim that, the wrong people, boaters are the focus of attention.
 
Sausalito-Marin City Sanitary District isn't the only municipal violator in the S.F. Bay area.

Recreational boaters are not the focus of attention in my region, run-off and municipal sewage are. Boaters seem willing to comply with the current NDZ in Richardson Bay (given the sensitive oyster beds) including some 2000 boats berthed in Sausalito. The houseboats and floating homes no longer dump raw sewage into the bay: they are zero discharge or removed.

For boaters berthed in Sausalito (and inside the Richardson Bay NDZ) there is nothing preventing them from operating the hybrid MSD I/III systems like ElectroScan or Purasan Hold n' Treat systems. The boater could use either a pump out station or use the Type I discharge function after leaving the NDZ and entering other S.F. Bay waters. That's just minutes away.
 
The responsible people are the plant operators and they suffer no punishment; probably all get raises.
A very public firing every time the plant dumps would get some attention.

Wow. Being a licensed wastewater treatment plant operator by the state of Florida I find this statement quite amusing. Back in my younger days as a sewage plant operator I have worked a few of those disasters when hurricanes and tropical storms came thru south Florida. When a system is designed to treat 5 million gallons a day and the system gets 50 million gallons dumped in it because of storm water it is the operator’s fault? All of the operators would be working our butts off to get the system back in compliance as soon as possible. Most operators I know here in south Florida are boat owners also and obey the laws as we swim and fish in our beautiful waters, and would like to keep them clean and improve the quality of our waterways and way of life.

Since I have retired and would like to go back to work please let me know if one of these plants you are referring to (Gulf Coast Florida) has an opening so I can get a raise when the next storm comes thru.
 
We get the whole spectrum of sewage plant spills in the S.F. Bay Area. Richardson Bay got hit by a 2.7 million gallon spill in January of 2008. That was caused by storm drain discharge that overwhelmed the system because an operator failed to actuate all of the pumps that would have handled the storm flow. A few old plants just can't handle big storm flows. Most of problems are caused aging or inadequate infrastructure including broken pipes.

EPA ordered nine Marin county (including Sausalito) treatment plants to repair and upgrade in 2008 but the fixes won't be seen for several years.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/04/11/BAMF103LGQ.DTL
 
quote:
ALBANY, NY -- Aging sewer systems in the Capital Region are dumping more than a billion gallons of watered-down, untreated sewage into the Hudson River each year, according to a report by the Capital District Regional Planning Commission.
Click to expand...


Yep, and NYC has overflow points along the river for when the system overflows (everytime it rains hard enough), yet they made the Hudson a no discharge zone, that never made any sense to me...
 
A simple web search using the terms below will illustrate the point that SF and Tampa sewer systems are regularly dumping sewage. I suspect that you can google most areas and find similar results. Some are storm related but many are other causes. This has been going on forever and yet the problems continue despite claims to the contrary.

google there strings to see for yourself
san Francisco bay sewage spill
tampa bay sewage spill
 
Everyone agrees there are spills. Especially in older systems where the storm water (rain) was designed to go into the domestic wastewater system. That is not the case in Florida, storm drains do not go into the domestic waster systems but when it floods and the manholes are under a few of water it has to go somewhere. Contractors with backhoes break a lot more water and sewer mains than Mother Nature. As any city that has waterways there will be pipelines under them to carry water and wastewater. The law requires a public notice anytime there is a broken pipeline to protect the public. I have had to issue a few of these myself during hurricanes Wilma, Francis, Charlie, Katrina and a few other tropical storms. This is all a matter of public record put in place to protect the public so I don’t get your despite claims to the contrary comment.
 
The only part of SF Bay that is an NDZ is Richardson Bay. Like I said, it is silly to ban discharge by treatment systems like Lectra Sans in most NDZs (such as the lower Hudson). Me, I want to avoid boating in sewers, and will do what's needed to avoid contributing sewage to protected waters.

George
 
It even happens here in inland Charlotte. There are sewer spills into lake Norman and Wyle. Mainly from malfunctioning "neighborhood" sewer systems lift pumps and the like. Lake Tillery is more rural, but still gets some agricultural run-off and private septic systems seeping into the the water. The boaters are the least of the promblems.
 
In my experience its not the plant operators who are to blame but rather those responsible to maintain sufficient resources to handle the increased sewage/run-off. It all falls back to the municipality (or in very rare cases the corporation) that owns and operates the facilities. So in most cases you should blame the local government or, if appropriate, the voters who denied the bond issue necessary to expand the facility.
 
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