Resolved - Engine troubles

quote:
Originally posted by pdecat

Two problems almost never occur at the same time. The starter is not the reason the engine stopped.

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The engine stopped because Rick turned the key off when he heard an alarm after he took a big wake.
When he tried to start the motor a some other point in time it sounds from his description that the Bendix isn't engaging so he can't start the motor.
Bill
 
quote:
Originally posted by Billylll
Rick I can't believe you haven't tried hitting the starter/ solenoid? I'm not suggesting this as a permenent fix just to get the 2nd engine going.
When getting a replacement starter make sure you get an ignition protected starter.
Bill

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Bill,I cannot get physical access to the starter...from the top or bottom of the engine...not even with a board.

I have to remove the hot water heater just to gain access so I have not been able to rap the starter...it's that tight and out of the way. If this had been my port engine, I would likely be back in the water now but no such luck.
--Rick
 
Once the starter is fixed, I will be able to troubleshoot the alarm. I know it seems like too much of a coincidence for the two to occur at the same time, but I think that will be the case...a coincidence.
--Rick
 
I didn't realize it was that tight in your ER Rick. Sounds like a bummer.
Let us know what you find (with the alarm) once you get the motor to start.
Bill
 
Sorry to hear about your trouble Rick, I was looking on the n.e. forum to see if you made the trip. Fwiw , the river was a mess of debris Saturday when we came back up. All the rain up north has created quite the onslaught of junk. Back on topic of your alarm, I have had quite a history of " phantom " alarms on my boat when the gauges read everything was good. As mentioned above the senders are ground based and after chasing around and verifying the gauges were correct I replaced the alarm sender and the alarms stopped.......but my fridge quit this weekend :(
 
Fixed. Bad starter. Put the new one in and it started right up. Not sure why I had an engine alarm but have yet to fully yet.
--Rick
 
Probably also a coincidence that the starter matched its time of failure to your precautionary shutdown. Glad it's fixed, and I know most any I/O starter job is not a fun one. What starter type did you get?
 
quote:
Originally posted by j-d

...and I know most any I/O starter job is not a fun one. What starter type did you get?

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Would have been A LOT easier if it had been the port engine as the starter would have been centerline. Because it was the starboard, it was inaccessible with the water heater in. Removed the water heater and crawled into my engine compartment along side the motor and was able to get access to it from there.

Don't know who the manufacturer is... of all places, I bought it off Amazon. It was inexpensive and actually had decent reviews compared to some of the other starters that were even cheaper. Looks identical to what came out, but it's definitely not OEM Merc based on the price ($68).

--Rick
 
If it looks about like this...

519waUR2GOL._AA160_.jpg


...it's the High Torque/Gear Reduction/Permanent Magnet Starter. The pic may be from a different vendor than the one you chose. It's probably the type MerC used as OEM. Notice the relatively small plated motor portion.

They used to look like this big heavy Delco-style honker...

41yx0M2LLsL._AA160_.jpg


...and it would be a major isometric effort to keep in place as you tried to finger the bolts in place. Notice how much bigger the motor part is, and how it's painted.

Again, congrats!
 
Still sounds to me that all you did was spin the bendix gear. Check for my own satisfaction. The bendix is a one way gear that can have the innards stripped so it turns both ways. Just stick your finger in and try to turn it both ways.. You can use it as a back-up if just the bendix needs replacing.

...and like JD has been inquiring, the new style starter uses a permanent magnet for the field windings so it weighs half as much as the OEM. It's much easier to replace. He was trying to get you to get one.
 
Charlie, our '96 has that PM starter as OEM. If Rick paid $70 that's about what it has to be, a PM type. Few parts avaiable for them, though.
 
JD,
Good to hear OEM is using latest technology.

The only parts would be for the solenoid and bendix. Maybe brushes. I still have a starter rebuild kit from a few years back that even has an assortment of brushes as well as the bendix and washer and spring and copper contact bolts for the end cap of the solenoid...back when they made real rebuild kits.
 
quote:
Originally posted by j-d

If it looks about like this...

519waUR2GOL._AA160_.jpg


...it's the High Torque/Gear Reduction/Permanent Magnet Starter.

Click to expand...


Yep, that's the one. Makes a slightly higher but smoother pitched sound when cranking and sounds like it spins much faster. I like it.

Will check on the Bendix on the one I took out... wouldn't mind having a spare.

--Rick
 
I haven't had to replace the bendix from the newer starter yet but the procedure is probably similar to the old style. Just remove the nose cone. Not sure if there's a keeper on the end of the starter shaft but it doesn't need one. No keeper and the nose cone should bring the bendix out with it. There are 'shifting forks' that push out the bendix to engage the flywheel. Bend one of the forks so it clears the collar of the bendix assembly and remove the bendix assembly. Take it to a parts store(or starter repair) to match up to a replacement. Shouldn't cost more than $15.
 
The shop I took ours to does a fair amount of marine work plus starters/alternators in general. He said he couldn't get a drive for ours. But then, all it was, was stuck. We'd come back from being away a few weeks in a very rainy season. I think the drive just stuck to the shaft with a little surface rust. I canceled a patrol, pulled the starter, fiddled with it and the drive would extend, every time I tried it. At that point I took it to this auto electric shop along with two RV starters. He "serviced" the three for $30 each. Good deal on the Ford RV starters. They got brushes, bushings, and as I recall one drive. The MerC starter was really just Clean, Inspect, Lube, Reassemble. It came in working and went home working. Has worked for years since.
I liked working on the Delco starters because so much was replaceable without special equipment. The Ford ones, and Imports, required Spot Welding to replace Brushes.
I bought a spare starter online, forget how I found it. Outfit in Milledgeville GA. Also a Delco Alternator as a spare, some online place in FL near Orlando. Neither has been on the boat. 1,339 engine hours as of this morning. Up at 0330, underway 0500 for a fishing tournament start. Home 0900 before it got hot. Beautiful day!
 
i'm willing to wager that the knock from the wave has loosened a ground connection somewhere. it would explain the alarm and the loss of full power to the starter. no loss in looking hard at the grounding both of the engine to the battery and bonding system.
 
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