Surveys

mintregila

mintregila

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After several recent threads on issues with Volvo out-drives and other survey related issues on other sites a thought occurred to me.

It seems like we all recommend to prospective buyers to get a survey, get a survey, get a survey. What is obvious is that not all surveys are the same quality or conducted in the same thorough manner that Al has a reputation for.

Since this is a "boater education" site, my thought is that there should be a sticky in the survey section or in ATC that lists what a good survey should encompass.

This could be broken down into sections.

Hull and structure - moisture analysis, thermal imaging etc.

Engines - compression testing, oil analysis etc.

Out-drives, outboards and running gear, etc.

Sea trial - operating temperature, RPM at WOT etc.

Also, places to look for information regarding specific issues like the IPX drive issues or a minimum of recommending that they pose the question here.

The survey on my first boat was very poorly done and it seems like telling someone that they should have done this or that after the boat is theirs doesn't help matters much.

Thoughts?
 
Mark,
Its it wrong to think a surveyor should be familiar with the vessel and engines/drives of the vessel he is surveying ?

Case and point the volvo XDP's.

Rob
 
No. I would think they should but not all surveyors are created equal.

If someone is buying a boat for the first time or maybe their first used boat or first big boat, how do they know what the surveyor should or should not know or do?

The first survey I had done was poorly but at the time, I thought he did a good job. It wasn't until later that I realized the things that were missed that should have been caught.
 
The only really good surveyor I know, the one with X-Ray vision and the ability to predict the future, got out the business and now spends all his time hanging out in front of college sorority houses and at casinos winning at craps.
 
Am i not wording my question right ? Here is an engine drive setup with issues dating back to 2006 and the surveyor apparently was out of the loop. Am i wrong to think he should have some minimal knowledge of the vessels equipment ? I dont think im stretching it ?

Rob
 
Rob, I see what you are saying. I think a continued education is a must for Surveyors. That would help keep up on such and such issue..

Not every surveyor can know EVERY problem or potential problem with any boat motor combination...

I never had a survey done on my searay when I went to buy it. I had a mechanic come down, do a compression test, listen to the motors run, and I took care of the rest. So far, the only issue ive had (knock on wood), was a bad fuel pump due to the ethonol in the fuel...
 
The key is to first get references from other buyers who have used a surveyor. Then interview the surveyor about their experience with your kind of boat. ask them for references from owners of similar craft. The surveyor who may be terrific on center console outboard boats, because that is a big enough percent of the market where they are to support their business and generate a lot of referrals, may or may not be the person you want for a big diesel powered motoryacht.
 
Hiring a surveyor is like hiring anyone else. Make sure you are not the guys "first". You wouldnt want to be a contractors first home improvement project. When I bought my Silverton I called a guy that was recommended by some good friends. My father in law , a well seasoned boater, said make sure he has done survey's on that boat before. I asked and the guy produced thick pile of Silverton survey's he had done. I was very happy with him. Surveyors are like marine electricians or mechanics. Some get soo much work from a certain segment of boating population thats all they know. A guy that does alot of sport fishers for that crowd might not be the guy to call for your Searay or trawler. You arent taking your BMW to a Honda dealer if the car isnt running right.
 
Maybe I'm not expressing this right. I think a new boater, armed with information would be better prepared to ask the rigt questions of the surveyor he is thinking of hiring. That is my only point.

I agree, the surveyor should know about known issues but perhaps that should be the mechanic. How often do we read about someone encountering issues only to find out that something was not done during the survey.
 
I have seen both certifications SAMS and NAMS get it wrong on more then one occasion. There are other certifications as well. Either one with additional ABYC specific certifications in addition is a great asset. I wouldn't expect most surveyors to know much about the newest electronic controlled marine diesels. I think I would have an independant servicing dealer certify and test the powertrain if the vessel was diesel powered. It's like most proffesions there are good and bad it's best to do what Zane did.
Robski I agree the guy who surveyed the known outdrive problem should have used Google when he went home before writing the report.
L.Kieth does bring up a good point they almost have to be able to predict the future.
I know the original surveyor who did my boat didn't do an even mediocare job. It's a good thing I bought the vessel with the mindset that I was going to upgrade it.
My 2nd surveyor after the refit (for insurance purposes) caught more stuff and made recommendations then when I bought the boat. He was really good except the guy talked my ear off after looking over the boat. He honestly didn't know how to write up all the electronics in the vessel. In addition he asked for a new schematic wiring diagram to review before he would sign off on the survey.
Bill
 
On most boats I would (and always) have a separate engine surveyor who knows those engines and transmissions, again via references. Some of the best money I spent was buying David Pascoe's "Mid Size Powerboats" which walks you through all the ergonomic and systems issues. It is dated now, technology and boat brand wise, but the basics covered in the first half are excellent and a great help both in figuring out and selecting the right boat for you and in selecting and understanding a surveyor.
 
The carver I just bought came with 2 previously done surveys from when 2 previous owners purchased it. I didnt get it surveyed. There was a handful of things on those surveys that were incorrect, one of which was both surveys indicated the boat had 1 1/2" shafts. In reality they are 1 1/4" Something so simple was done wrong twice. Thus one of many reasons I conducted my own survey.
 
What Mark is saying here is it would be good to have a sticky here that a newbie or even a seasoned boater could use as a guideline to make sure all things that can be covered on a. Survey gets covered.
In other words, a sticky would educate a boater on what the surveyor will be doing, and give the boater more insight on what a "good" survey entails.

Think about the first time you ever had a survey, knowing what a survey is all about and expectations would be good boater education IMHO
 
What Mark is saying here is it would be good to have a sticky here that a newbie or even a seasoned boater could use as a guideline to make sure all things that can be covered on a. Survey gets covered.
In other words, a sticky would educate a boater on what the surveyor will be doing, and give the boater more insight on what a "good" survey entails.

Think about the first time you ever had a survey, knowing what a survey is all about and expectations would be good boater education IMHO
 
I think everyone is missing my point. I know what should go into a good survey.

Let's say you are a new boater or you are buying for the first time in a long time. Wouldn't it be helpful to have knowledge enough to ask certain questions of the surveyor and mechanic?

Will you be checking for moisture?

Will you be doing thermal imaging?

Will the mechanic be checking compression and doing oil samples?

Will the mechanic be dropping the lower units on the outboards and scoping the exhaust system?

I just asked if anyone thought a sticky would be helpful to someone visiting the site.
 
quote:
Originally posted by unlimited1320

The carver I just bought came with 2 previously done surveys from when 2 previous owners purchased it. I didnt get it surveyed. There was a handful of things on those surveys that were incorrect, one of which was both surveys indicated the boat had 1 1/2" shafts. In reality they are 1 1/4" Something so simple was done wrong twice. Thus one of many reasons I conducted my own survey.

Click to expand...

The surveyors probably just looked up the manufactures specifications for the engines in that year and model boat and didn't measure the actual shafts.
Bill
 
If I was buying a used boat, I would be concerned with the costly first, so I would want a surveyor to check the most expensive things to fix. Plus I would want him to focus on stuff I couldn't easily check myself. So put the list in rough order of cost to fix, easiness of self checking, plus add some stuff for safety.

Hull
Fuel tanks
Engines
Drives/shafts
Thrusters
Decks
Generator
Steering
Helm electronics
Refrigerator
Gelcoat
Canvas
Water heater
Sanitation system and tank
Toilet
Vinyl upolstry
Microwave
Fresh water pump and tank
Plumbing fixtures
Nav lighting
Other lighting
 
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