Wakes
- Thread starter seeside
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That was in the waccamaw river in SC, on the ICW just south of myrtle beach. I was cruising at 10kts but if I had been on plane closing on the trawler at 22kts, there would have been no difference. When I approach a slower boat while on plane, I usually call them up on the radio a lot earlier just to let them know I will slow down. I understand that if you're in a Smaller and/or slower boat and see a 70 footer closing in at 20+ with a 4' wake, you will want to know I will slow down
Again it s all about courtesy....
Again it s all about courtesy....
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When I was a kid, the boomers (Ballistic Missle Submarines) used to leave the pens in Suisun Bay heading for the Golden Gate. They would run at minimum steerage speed, but still with a boat that size, with so much hull under water even anchored off the channel they would create huge wakes. The kind of wake that when you were in the bottom of the trough, you could not see the horizon, just a big wall of water. So if they are at minimum speed and they swamp you are they responsable? I think not. They are operating in a mode that creates the least disturbance, but that disturbance is very large even from the far side of the channel. So they can control their wake to a point, but that point may still be very sizable. At that point, if they minimize their wake, but still swamp you, what does the admiralty court decide?
Well then according to some members here the Submarine crew should be hog tied and flogged ! How dare they
In case u haven't figured it out what works in some parts of the country truly doesnt work in others. For the most part it has nothing to do with the captains ability and all to do with the type of boat , the surroundings & the boating density.
just my 2 cents...
Rob
In case u haven't figured it out what works in some parts of the country truly doesnt work in others. For the most part it has nothing to do with the captains ability and all to do with the type of boat , the surroundings & the boating density.
just my 2 cents...
Rob
Ron is so tight you could put a piece up coal up his rb2rb2@gr5tgr5tss and in a week you have a diamond.
You're just annoyed because you are one of those who get waked on a trawler.
Incase you havent noticed, in different parts of the country people live life differently. Down south is a much slower pace then it is up north. My family has a place in NC. Driving around town people are doing 25 in a 30 mph zone. Drives me nuts, I am used to the north where everything is time time time, hurry hurry hurry.
Yes boating is supposed to be relaxing. Years ago before boating was popular there was a lot more respect on the water. Today, any fool with money can buy a boat, and there fore think they can captain a boat.
Again Ron, I invite you do come up north with the boat and try long island out and youll see first hand what its like. I have a house on the water with 125' of bulkhead, electric, and water. You can keep the boat there instead mooring or paying for dockage. Ill even give you a car to use so you can go around town for whatever you might need. I have a marine store 5 minutes away from the house
You're just annoyed because you are one of those who get waked on a trawler.
Incase you havent noticed, in different parts of the country people live life differently. Down south is a much slower pace then it is up north. My family has a place in NC. Driving around town people are doing 25 in a 30 mph zone. Drives me nuts, I am used to the north where everything is time time time, hurry hurry hurry.
Yes boating is supposed to be relaxing. Years ago before boating was popular there was a lot more respect on the water. Today, any fool with money can buy a boat, and there fore think they can captain a boat.
Again Ron, I invite you do come up north with the boat and try long island out and youll see first hand what its like. I have a house on the water with 125' of bulkhead, electric, and water. You can keep the boat there instead mooring or paying for dockage. Ill even give you a car to use so you can go around town for whatever you might need. I have a marine store 5 minutes away from the house
Question? Why does it seem that most of the people with WDS own trawlers or sailboats? Planning hulls are much more stable up on plane than off plane that is why we run them that way. When a 70' Sportfish overtakes my 43' Viking at 20+ knots I don't get all mad, even though the wake is very big and I have to alter course to deal with it. I am boating, not sitting at my marina with a bowl of hot soup in my lap. If I drop my speed back and get off plane the wake is much worst for me. If you look back at my original post you can see my standards for being respectful of others is pretty liberal. I draw the line at (boats of my size or larger) in head to head passing in open water; but this is not good enough for people with WDS. People who choose planning mono hulls have rights too...when we come off plane to accommodate your safety and/or personality we are being very respectful and it is forcing us to run our boats in the uncomfortable speed range. We are not all crazy fat cats who don't care about others...just a little more understanding about our boats and why we run them the way we do would go a long way to helping keep cool heads on the water.
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Please read my scenario on page two - that is not sarcastic, that is a realistic scenario in which we up here see on a weekend basis. None of the referneced points in that post are made up, they are all real and you can see them on any chart. Please explain to us how you would go about getting to Block Island through that?
Also, the same challenge posted to Pascal is open to you.
Here,if everyone used proper signals and radio calls when crossing or overtaking all you would hear all day is horns and mumbled radio calls.
It is the same thing as the speed limit analogy. If everyone is on the highway going 75 in a 65 zone, you are just keeping up with traffic. The cars in the left lane that are passing the cars in the right lanes are not being inconsiderate, they are just keeping with the flow. Then along comes some A hole weaving in and out of traffic doing 90. For the most part everyone gets it and goes with the flow, but there will always be one excpetion.
By the way, some of the worst wake offenders here are the commercial tugs. Oh, and forget about calling them to overtake, they will blatantly ignore your radio call.
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The reality is this. If you believe that the submarine captain is absolutely responsible for such a huge wake at minimum steerage speed, then you are saying, he cannot operate his vesse, ever. Seems a little extreme to me.
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I have a question regarding this bit about the submarines and their wakes.
Since I live in NE Florida, I do a lot of boating in, around and transiting Jacksonville. As you all know, there is a fairly large Navy base there and war ships come in and out all the time. The thing is though, for about 1-2 hours before either the arrival or departure of any war ship the USCG is blasting the radio (16 and 22) with alerts and warnings to all vessels in the area.
Would not SF do the same regarding the departure and arrivals of submarines and wouldn't effected boats have plenty of notice to get out of the way?
Also, it should be further noted that, in transiting the inlet at Jacksonville, I quite often pass very close to very large commercial vessels. When they pass there is scarcely a ripple.
so, I guess what I am saying is that, I don't see how either one is relevant to this rambling thread.
Bob
Since I live in NE Florida, I do a lot of boating in, around and transiting Jacksonville. As you all know, there is a fairly large Navy base there and war ships come in and out all the time. The thing is though, for about 1-2 hours before either the arrival or departure of any war ship the USCG is blasting the radio (16 and 22) with alerts and warnings to all vessels in the area.
Would not SF do the same regarding the departure and arrivals of submarines and wouldn't effected boats have plenty of notice to get out of the way?
Also, it should be further noted that, in transiting the inlet at Jacksonville, I quite often pass very close to very large commercial vessels. When they pass there is scarcely a ripple.
so, I guess what I am saying is that, I don't see how either one is relevant to this rambling thread.
Bob
"In the know", I know of which you speak, Here is my background: In the yacht brokerage business for 20 yrs with offices in Long Island and South Florida. We sold large power and large sail (36' to 80') Was a part time bayman from the age of 14, raced sailboats on Wednesday nights and weekends, operated a bareboat charter fleet with mostly sailboats and a few trawlers. Attended the survey of every boat I ever sold and learned every detail about every system on most boats because I had to fix them a good bit of the time after survey Delivered sail and power boats long distance. I have a lot of experience on Great South Bay and Eastern Long Island to Block Island. I got out of the business in 1998. I am 63 and currently own a 43'Viking and live in south Florida. Happy to debate anyone any time about boating and boating people and their mind sets. Boat owners tend to think they know more than the rest of us...when in fact many do not know much at all, especially those that suffer from WDS or are reckless operators of big fast powerboats. I cannot tell you how many sailboats I have sold to people who almost never raise their sails, which is exactly why wakes bother them so much. Same with full displacement trawler people...their boats are designed to carry heavy loads and when they are light they don't handle as well, just like my boat does not do well off plane. So my advice is when you leave the dock be prepared for anything and know what makes your boat handle better in a busy waterway. The jerks on both sides of this debate are never going to see the other person's point of few.
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Seaside, I often tell people that when the bay is busy, to accomodate one is to piss off another.
The only solution is to find the middle ground, or declare the entire bay no wake.
The only solution is to find the middle ground, or declare the entire bay no wake.
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Well this has been interesting as always.
IMO
Use good sense and be considerate of others where possible. This is the minority out there.
Also,
If you are anchored in Long Island Sound - expect to be waked. You will feel that 80 ft yacht half a mile away running at cruise.
If you are blockading the state channel because you and 200 other nitwits are chasing the same 10 flounder - expect to be waked.
If you are tied to the buoy marking the state channel - expect to be waked.
If you are anchored or drifting in the inlet, one would think you should expect wave action from the ocean so - expect to be waked.
Am I PO'd when some pinhead runs too close to me - of course. But if I were in any of the above, I would expect wakes to rock me because those are areas where boats run at planing speed. If I am fishing outside of the state channel, I don't begrudge the guy running in the channel, I expect it.
IMO
Use good sense and be considerate of others where possible. This is the minority out there.
Also,
If you are anchored in Long Island Sound - expect to be waked. You will feel that 80 ft yacht half a mile away running at cruise.
If you are blockading the state channel because you and 200 other nitwits are chasing the same 10 flounder - expect to be waked.
If you are tied to the buoy marking the state channel - expect to be waked.
If you are anchored or drifting in the inlet, one would think you should expect wave action from the ocean so - expect to be waked.
Am I PO'd when some pinhead runs too close to me - of course. But if I were in any of the above, I would expect wakes to rock me because those are areas where boats run at planing speed. If I am fishing outside of the state channel, I don't begrudge the guy running in the channel, I expect it.
Mark, Matt, that's fine (although wasn't there once a 12mph limit in the state channel?), but it doesn't cover the frequent situation where someone is aground outside the Amityville Cut, people are standing around shin deep in muck trying to push off or a towboat is trying to hook up, and some guy just has to save 60 seconds by plowing or blasting on by. There's no boat that should be operating in that channel that can't slow to idle and throw no wake at all or close to it, and no excuse not to do so. I don't think anyone is out there transporting organs for transplant or something so what's the rush? Yet that scenario happens every single weekend. Saying "oh well it's LI boating" doesn't do it for me; an inconsiderate idiot is an inconsiderate idiot.
The same applies to people who have to pass a sailboat doing 3 knots at the narrowest point of that cut, doing 20 knots within 20 feet of the guy, where the breaking wave actually slaps the boat hull and shoves it sideways, when they could wait until 1/4 mile on where it's wider and lose 5 minutes while cutting the guy a break. There's no reason for it. Boats don't come with a guarantee that you'll never have to change power settings once underway.
I'm not talking here about people who choose to be an obstruction in a channel when there is other good water available to them - they may well need to take what comes.
That a lot of people around here do these things doesn't change the way I operate at all. Wrong is wrong. I suspect you'd agree - so it really comes down to what examples one chooses to make the point.
The same applies to people who have to pass a sailboat doing 3 knots at the narrowest point of that cut, doing 20 knots within 20 feet of the guy, where the breaking wave actually slaps the boat hull and shoves it sideways, when they could wait until 1/4 mile on where it's wider and lose 5 minutes while cutting the guy a break. There's no reason for it. Boats don't come with a guarantee that you'll never have to change power settings once underway.
I'm not talking here about people who choose to be an obstruction in a channel when there is other good water available to them - they may well need to take what comes.
That a lot of people around here do these things doesn't change the way I operate at all. Wrong is wrong. I suspect you'd agree - so it really comes down to what examples one chooses to make the point.
Ron. The amityville cut is an animal onto its self. Its what maybe a mile long? I try to avoid the cut with the searay for that very reason. If I have to go down the cut with the searay, I will back out of the throttle instead of passing someone in the cut.
When a tow boat is in tow or in the process of hooking up, i will back off completely till i am at idle speed. Ill even hail the tow boat letting him know if he needs a hand ill stand by OR ill stop and signal to other boaters to come off plane
When a tow boat is in tow or in the process of hooking up, i will back off completely till i am at idle speed. Ill even hail the tow boat letting him know if he needs a hand ill stand by OR ill stop and signal to other boaters to come off plane
Matt, understood, but it's a real example of a real place and I don't believe a narrow channel surrounded by unnavigable shallows is an entirely unique situation in boating. It just makes the point that people argue past one another on this wake subject and anyone can disagree vehemently with anyone based on having an entirely different situation in mind.