water police

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deltabighat

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With all this talk on a different thread about Lost Isle, I was wondering what experiences, good or bad, have you folks had with the delta Sheriff Dept. I have had two. When I first started boating in the delta my wife and I got lost and were not sure where we were. I stopped a passing sheriffs boat to inquire where I was. He told me I was at Lost Isle and then asked where my current registration sticker was. I told him at home in a basket on our kitchen sink. He then asked if I had the registration card. I said no it was with the sticker. He then asked if he could come aboard and check the boat out. I said, of course. He then wrote me a fix it ticket for the registration issues, an out of date fire extinguisher and not having a throw cushion for use as a life preserver. They were nice and professional and I got it all worked out. My next meeting with the sheriff was with my brother, a superior court judge. It was January and we had just picked up our new fishing licenses. He was taking a nap down below and I had two rods out the back fishing. The sheriff boat came by, looked at me, turned around and came back. He asked how many people were fishing and I said two. He wanted to know where the other person was because I was not supposed to be fishing two rods I guess. I told him my brother was sleeping. He said could I get him up so they could see him. I woke my brother up, he came up and then the sheriffs wanted to see our fishing licenses. I quickly found mine but my brother could not locate his. They got a little testy and finally my brother said he was a superior court judge and would not think of fishing without a licence (the absolute truth) They laughed and said, well, well, well, we got ourselves a judge fishing illegally. They were joking actually and said the would come by later and see if my brother could find his license, He did and they never came back. All and all, not to bad of an experience in both cases. How about you folks, any unusual or bad encounters?

DBH
 
About 9 years ago, I was cruising down Woodward Slough towards Disco Bay, in an area with a middle berm that separate much of that passage and observed a sheriff with blue lights flashing on the other side, who was writing up another boat. They stopped what they were doing and pursued me. I pulled over, it was San Joaquin sheriffs. They demanded to know why I ignored their blue lights and didn't slow to steerage speed in passing them. I replied that I didn't consider myself to be "within their area of operation" given the separation of the berm, and didn't feel I was inhibiting or interfering with the operation of their vessel. They grudgingly acknowledged that I not only knew the law but was also right, but they came on pretty strong at first contact, yelling at me, etc...In my experience CoCo Counties sheriffs are the most reasonable, the San Joaquin sheriffs are A-holes and the Sac county are pretty reasonable too. Your Lost Isle experience would have been San Joaquin county sheriffs.
Another time,about 6 years ago I was blazing into Sacto approaching the first bridge and 5 mph zone, and Sacto cty sheriffs assumed pursuit when I passed 'em (they couldn't catch me but I throttled down and let them approach while in neutral. They asked me if I knew how fast I was going, and I said probably about 53-55mph at 3850 rpms. I asked them why they had initiated pursuit, and they said "there are a lot of boats out, and you were going real fast". I said, well, I felt I was operating within my skill level in a non-speed zone area, and didn't feel I was reckless or out of control, and that my boat was indeed capable of going faster. That's when they noticed the beer can. So now they have even more probable cause. I told them that I weighed 250lbs., that I had consumed 3 beers within an hour and a half, and that I would be happy to take the tests if they wanted to go that route. So, they give me the coordination tests, then have me blow 3 times, after the third time, they said, "are you sure you've had anything to drink today"? I laughed at 'em and said, look, I know your just doing your jobs, can we wrap this up? They cited me for not having a throw cushion in reach, which they then signed off on when I produced one. It was a keystone cop sort of drill imho, but I'm glad my girl friend (now wife) was there to witness it all, I have a feeling if I'd been alone they would have made it into a bigger event. I like and respect cops as a rule, but I really don't have a lot of respect for the San Joaquin sheriffs the way I have seen them act.
 
I have had a number of interactions on the Bay and delta and all were what I would consider reasonable. Interactions on other bodies of water have not been so good.

On the not nice end of the spectrum, I was at Lake Powell one time and got a ticket from a park ranger because one of the CF numbers had fallen off. Not the entire number sequence, just one of the digits. You could still read the CF number because the hull had faded badly and everything else on the boat was legal, bu the ranger spent about an hour just working me over.

One time on the bay I was cruising around in my 36' Carver. Done for the day I was entering the Oakland/Alameda Estuary and noticed a Coast Guard vessel about a mile behind me with its lights on. The estuary is fairly narrow so I slowed and moved to one side only to discover they were chasing me! I am not sure why the singled me out but it was just a random stop. They boarded, checked life jackets, fire extinguishers, etc. I was 100% and they apologized for the delay and off I went.

Another time on the bay I was anchored in a cove at the base of Leavenworth St. (which I don't think you can do anymore) to watch the Fleet Week parade. The kids were playing around in the dinghy when the harbor patrol stopped them. I ended up in a discussion regarding the fine points of the law. Their point was that it was illegal for a 13 year old to operate a motor boat. I pointed out to them that the law actually specified that it had to be 15 Hp or more before the law applied and then they agreed. After that we chatted for about 20 minutes. I think they just wanted an excuse to have the lights on. They were nice.

If you go out to Mandeville for the July 4th fireworks the sheriffs and Coast Guard are always interacting with someone, and I have been that someone a couple of times. Again, I think they just want to have the lights on to remind everyone else that they are there and need to behave themselves. In my case I had a full boat and they did a life jacket check, which I passed.

I have had them stop and talk to me a couple of times when I was out wakeboarding. One time a rider was sitting on the back putting his wakeboard on as the sheriff passed. The issue was that I didn't have the flag up, which I didn't think was necessary as I didn't have a rope or skier in the water but the sheriff insisted I did because the rider was technically outside the boat standing on the swim platform. No ticket or anything, just a verbal warning.

For the last 15 years or so I have kept a boat at Tiki Lagun and get to watch the parade of boats coming/going to Lost Isle. The sheriff will frequently hang out in the 5 MPH zone and stop boats passing by. They don't need to invent reasons to stop boats, there are plenty that give him good cause. Boats with way too many people in them are common. Standing on the swim platform as the boat motors along is another common reason to get stopped. Plowing through the 5 MPH zone or just being reckless happens a lot. There have been a few times I have seen them escort a boat to the guest dock and then arrest someone.

Rod
 
The results of an interaction with a water cop is often directly related to the attitude of the person being stopped. Be nice; be polite; and don't argue and you'll fair much better!

One time I was getting gas at Turner Cut. It was on a Monday and one of the first really nice days of spring. Apparently a spider had nested in my fuel vent over the winter and when I was filling up, the fuel vent overflowed into the water. It wasn't a lot, but as luck would have it, a SJ Sheriff Patrol was just going by.

I noticed they both deliberately turned to look at the opposite shore so they didn't "see" the spill. Otherwise, they would have had to site me which would have cost me $$$$$$$$$$$$

I thought that was awfully nice of them.......
 
When I was berthed at Tiki, I was hosting a party on my boat in the slip. They came on the dock checking boats and asked why I didn't have any CF numbers. I explained to him that it was a documented vessel. I don't think he understood what that was so I showed him the registration and explained it to him.

Technically, my vessel is under the jurisdiction of the Coast Guard, so I didn't have to show him anything. But because I was hosting a party and just wanted him gone, I cooperated with him and he went on his way.

I don't know if this is a regular practice for them to inspect boats in the marina or if they were asked to do it by the marina which may be entirely possible. But they were San Joaquin County so maybe that has something to do with it.
 
quote:
Originally posted by johnnyo53

About 9 years ago, I was cruising down Woodward Slough towards Disco Bay, in an area with a middle berm that separate much of that passage and observed a sheriff with blue lights flashing on the other side, who was writing up another boat. They stopped what they were doing and pursued me. I pulled over, it was San Joaquin sheriffs. They demanded to know why I ignored their blue lights and didn't slow to steerage speed in passing them. I replied that I didn't consider myself to be "within their area of operation" given the separation of the berm, and didn't feel I was inhibiting or interfering with the operation of their vessel.

Click to expand...

According to the Keep the Delta clean (and safe) website, 5 M.P.H. Zones are "implied" when you see a flashing blue light.

Limit your speed to 5 miles per hour when your motorized vessel is:

* 100 feet from a bather (but not a water skier).
* 200 feet from a bathing beach, swimming float, diving platform, passenger landing being used or a landing where boats are tied up.
* Any time you see a sheriff's emergency blue lights flashing.
 
According to the Cal Boating Handbook, you are to be 5 mph within their area of operation. At no time was I even within 400 feet, and it was separated by a berm. It was a b.s. pursuit and stop, and they attempted to intimidate me and then backed down when I held my ground. They disgraced the badge.
 
Notice the last half of the paragraph know your rights- as a skipper you have the right to exercise your judgement too.

http://dbw.ca.gov/Pubs/Abc/oplaw.pdf

Any vessel approaching, overtaking, being approached, or being overtaken
by, a moving law enforcement vessel operating with a siren or an illuminated
blue light, or any vessel approaching a stationary law enforcement vessel
displaying an illuminated blue light, shall immediately slow to a speed
sufficient to maintain steerage only, shall alter its course, within its ability,
so as not to inhibit or interfere with the operation of the law enforcement
vessel, and shall proceed, unless otherwise directed by the operator of
the law enforcement vessel, at the reduced speed until beyond the area of
operation of the law enforcement vessel.
 
I've had several experiences with the local constables. I found all of the officers to be friendly and courteous. We were coming downstream at planing speed near Railroad Cut just above the Cross Delta Gates in our dinghy when we saw two jetskis approaching on a collision course. I I altered course and so did they! As they got closer, I realized that they were Sheriffs, the first ones I had seen on jetskis. They talked to me about exceeding the 5 mph speed limit, but I pointed out a nearby sign and explained that I thought I had just left the 5 mph area. Unfortunately there was another sign, partially obscured by bushes that I hadn't noticed. They let me off with a warning, but not before giving my son an "I got Caught Wearing My Life Jacket" T-shirt. The first of several that he has received over the years. We saw the two sheriffs later at Tony's in Walnut Grove and sent them over a drink on us.

I was also a passenger in a dinghy leaving Lost Isle, when the sheriff approached us. The dinghy pilot and I were both nervous since we had had a few cocktails on the island. The sheriff explained that he stopped us because our passenger in the rear seat was letting his legs dangle over the side of the dinghy. We told him to quit screwing around and to sit up straight and the sheriff wished us a good day and off we went.

We had another encounter over on Hog Slough where we were rafted up and tied to the shore. The theme of the raft out was "Pigging Out on Hog Slough" and the hosts had made little pig noses for everyone to wear while eating their BBQ ribs. You can imagine our surprise when the sheriff's boat pulled up with a jet ski in tow. They explained that one of our member's guests had had too much to drink and was being taken to the hoosecow, but they thought that we might want the jetski. I thanked them and said I'd come get it. After diving in the water and pulling myself up onto the jet ski, the Sheriff's laughed and said: Cool, we got another one! The smiles on their faces let me know they were kidding and slowly motored back over to the raft out.

Flutterby is correct about the attitude test. I've always been friendly and honest during encounters and have been treated well in return. As a matter of fact, I have never been cited for anything on the water, wish I could say the same about the highways.
 
I normally stay out of these debates but johnnyo has made some comments that require response. Only he could accurately describe two incidents in which excessive speed caused "a-holes" to question his judgement. Alcohol causes bad judgement, as evidence by the number of serious and fatal accidents on the Delta, thus probable cause did exist to check his sobriety. If Johnnyo could have this attitude on the web, can you imagine his demeanor in person.

Yes, I am retired law enforcement who dedicated much of my life to protecting all of you, regardless of your attitude and suspect the "a-holes" feel the same way. Perhaps if johnnyo said thank to you the deputies rather than the other two words to "a-holes" they would behave differently. I know I would have.

Bill
 
I call 'em like I see 'em, and if they were excessive speed incidents, why wasn't I cited? Your logic is as faulty as your knowledge of the situations, but let me elaborate.
The Sacramento guys were courteous and I could also see their point, the San Joaquin guys were to the extreme opposite end of the spectrum. I have heard too many anecdotes from friends whose judgement I value, not to be overly critical of the San Joaquin water Sheriffs. I will graciously concede that to paint them all with the ad hominem "A-hole" designation was overreaching, and I stand corrected. I can also say that 99.9% of Law enforcement professionals would be happy to have me on hand when they are out-numbered, my first instinct as a citizen and patriot is support them.
John
 
P.S.- I did note that probable cause certainly entered into the Sacto incident, and that it did result in the sobriety check etc...the Sacto guys were professional about it, and I didn't really have a problem with it- I just gave my story.
The S.J. incident involved their perception of probable cause event that even they conceded was faulty AFTER they came over screaming and pushing their weight around. My answer to their overtly aggressive "don't you know what a blue means" etc... was sufficient to get them to calm down, and they didn't bother with the sobriety check, emergency equipment check, etc, probably because of the recognition of being essentially on the other side of a slough separated by a land mass and maybe even a little embarrassed, but it never sat right with me... Law enforcement can't approach every situation like it's Fort Apache, The Bronx and not expect criticism, you, as a officer should be able to recognize that, just as I am capable of recognizing I was wrong to consider all S.J. Sheriff's A-holes. Hell, it was even on a weekday in Woodward, so it's not like they were overwhelmed at the time. I respect the badge, I'm not intimidated by it, and I don't go looking for trouble. This forum thread is intended to be a discussion of people's experiences, your's is from one side of the badge, mine is from the other. I was born in Stockton and raised in Antioch, and have spent more than 30 years as a boat owner/operator running from Martinez to Sacto and Stockton and all the points in between, let alone Shasta and Tahoe, so my judgement and observations have a little experience behind them. On the water at least we have some freedoms left. When those freedoms and current laws are encroached upon or broadened in their interpretation by overly zealous law enforcement professionals, they should be called on it just like on dry land. Sure it's a tough job for them, but it's tougher when they alienate the citizens who normally support them.
 
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