Westerbeke vs Onan

mixman

mixman

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I have started taking bids on refitting our trawler. The company I met with today was fine with our Perkins diesels but not fine with our Westerbeke 4.4kw diesel general. They want us to swap out to an Onan. In their words the Westerbeke starts giving lower and lower voltage output the more load it has and damages compressors as a result. I'm not going to replace a fully functional generator but some feedback would be good to hear. If the voltage drop is true how about adding some power conditioners?
 
I would look at the soft start compressor models or installing soft start mod kits on the AC units Kurt.
 
"In their words the Westerbeke starts giving lower and lower voltage output the more load it has and damages compressors as a result"

I do not know which exact genset you have nor how they measured the voltage loss (Hz variation) but every genset I have been around does the same thing to a degree.
The Gensets I have worked on have are controlled by a governor which holds the rpm as close to a designated target as possible - this in turn sets the resultant voltage and Hz.
On any of these gensets you set an unloaded unit (o amp draw) usually to 125 vlts and 62 Hz. The mid load (half full amps) would then be checked and expected to be 120 vlts and 60 hz and the full load amps would be expected to be 115 vlts and near 58 HZ.
With that said there are a number of settings and parts that could make the performance fall outside those limits and expectations.
While adding a new generator or a larger generator can and will obviously help just fixing what you have works 99% of the time. In no case have I ever seen a solution that requires a change of genset color - manufacturer "A" must be replaced by manufacturer "B".

Also FWIW - I have voltage gages and a Hz meter on board and I have seen a large number of marinas vary voltage and Hz wildly and have never lost a compressor in any of the A/C units, the refer or the ice maker on our boat of the many boats we cruise with.

Hope this helps
 
I prefer Westerbeke and northern lights as well as Norpro. I have an Isuzu powered Norpro on my boat, simple and reliable, cheaper than W or NL .l never been a big fan of Onans especially when complicated with a bunch of electronic like most new ones. Is this advice coming from an Onan dealer? :)

What s wrong with th existing gen?
 
if the genny is getting out of spec at max loads that may mean power loss at the engine level. But on an older installation checking all connections is important. Where was it measured, genny or someplace else?
 
Perhaps there are a few other variables that we do not know yet:

- What is the list of items you will be running on the 4.4 KW unit? Please list each 120 vlt draw that you intend to run with the genset. (you coined the term compressors - plural)
- Are 'they' proposing to replace the current 4.4 KW unit with something significantly larger? Did your plan include adding electric loads to the genset in the near future?

Hope this helps
 
quote:
Originally posted by pdecat

if the genny is getting out of spec at max loads that may mean power loss at the engine level. But on an older installation checking all connections is important. Where was it measured, genny or someplace else?

Click to expand...
+1 having previously owned the vessel Kurt's talking about the wiring is substandard.
I agree all gensets drop voltage when they are approaching peak rated output. I like the existing genset because it can provide up to 50 amps of DC charging in addition to the 4.4kw 110VAC.
 
Pascal - There's nothing wrong with the Westerbeke. It ain't broke so it ain't going to be replaced.

Bruce - The comment from the refit company was made in general about Westerbeke and most certainly isn't going to motivate me to swap out, as was said above, colors.

Smitty - There are a number of systems to be added to this vessel, but anything that's going to be drawing from the generator is going to be matched accordingly. Off the top of my head that means 2 marine AC units (not sure of size yet but roughly 10-12,000BTU), water heater, and battery charging. I've been managing all of this for years on my 30' boat with only 2,000 watts of generator and never had an issue.

Bill - I like that 50 amps of charging too, but I also like an already bought and paid for functioning generator. I'm honestly expecting the bid from this company to be somewhere between $50-$100k for a refit. I've seen their work and it's quite nice, but I will not be putting that much money into such services. I do have a budget but removing things that aren't broke isn't factored in. Another comment was that they don't like Spectra water makers so I should sell it and they'll recommend something superior. That isn't going to happen. I'm installing what I already have. If it gives me trouble down the road I'll replace it then.
 
"There's nothing wrong with the Westerbeke. It ain't broke so it ain't going to be replaced."

I do not know the hours but since the performance was raised as suspect perhaps this will help...
If it is running mostly smoke free and has had the valves adjusted , head torqued and injectors checked within a few hundred hours that is good. Assuring the air intake is free and the exhaust elbow and exhaust system are not plugged up is another good thing on or after about 1,000 hrs.
FWIW - Adjusting the genset rpms and simple governor adjust should take less than half an hour after the enclosure is off if there is an enclosure.

"Off the top of my head that means 2 marine AC units (not sure of size yet but roughly 10-12,000BTU), water heater, and battery charging"

Of course units vary but those items together will draw about 33 amps if you have 'average' 12K A/C units, fans and raw water pump(s) along with a typical HWH element and 5 amps for a Batt charger.

I happen to like the Westerbekes and have worked on a whole bunch of them over the past 15+ years. One is in my current boat and my past 3 boats had them as well as more than 5 of the folks we cruise with. I have not seen one have a super larger problem even when they are 'abused' and not maintained too well.

Hope this helps
 
It is good to know you're here on this forum with so much knowledge on Westerbeke units. This one has 677 hours. Bill had it checked out and it was running fine for him. I have not had a chance to put the boat in the water as I'm taking refit bids.
 
"This one has 677 hours."

Generally viewed as very low hours on a diesel genset.

"I have not had a chance to put the boat in the water"

So I guess the company that is quoting your refit completed their genset assessment without actually running the genset in question?
 
That's just it, they took one look at it and said "we don't like those". They also don't like Spectra water makers but they're going to install the one I have in storage if they want the job. It seems they like to warranty everything they do. My current boat has been out of warranty so long I'm not even used to having such a thing!
 
I wouldn't trade one Westerbeke for a carload of Onan's. Had both, Westerbeke!!!
 
"That's just it, they took one look at it and said "we don't like those"."

Wow - impressive , I do not know anyone else who can diagnose machinery without running it. I guess their quote, work and outcome will be quite impressive as well.

Very much luck to you - happy boating
 
Kurt, the genset was serviced and repaired before it was winterized this past Fall. There was nothing negative about that model posted on Boat Diesel`s website. There should be new filters on it and the oil pressure sender was replaced to correct the starting issue, it ran like a top.
 
Smitty, I've seen their work and it's quite impressive. I have a budget in mind and they'll either meet it or not. I'm not new to this and I appreciate the feedback on Westerbeke, which is an item I am new to. I needed to make sure that my gut feeling of "if it ain't broke" about this generator was correct, and it appears that it is. I'm not an idiot. On my 30' cat I've installed everything myself: Type I MSD, Water maker, Auto Pilot, Radar, Windlass, Satellite communications & TV, etc. This project, however, is a bit large for somebody with two boats and a business to run. Cash, within reason, I have right now. Time, not so much.

Bill, I know, that's why I started this thread. There's no way I'm going to replace a fully functional diesel generator with only 677 hours on it.

David, I'm trying, I'm really trying. But the marine industry in Maryland must have the highest paying jobs in the country as after contacting 6 different firms this is the only one to take the time to actually meet with me! Another Annapolis firm won't return my calls or web-form submissions, one on the eastern shore wants to be paid to come give me an estimate, and another up the creek from my smaller boat wants me to bring the trawler about 3 hours to them to estimate. It seems anybody that's worth crap in the industry moves to Florida. Heck, maybe I'll just put the basic upgrades in myself and take her south for the work. I'm sure my acquaintances in Fort Pierce would want the work. Sheesh!
 
There's nothing technically wrong with this Westerbeke except this particular refit company doesn't like the brand. They specialize in boats that cruise deep into the Caribbean. Perhaps it's a parts issue in areas like that. That was what they said about Spectra water makers. When I make it that far I think I can make due waiting for parts :-)
 
quote:
Originally posted by PascalG

.l never been a big fan of Onans especially when complicated with a bunch of electronic like most new ones. Is this advice coming from an Onan dealer? :)

Click to expand...


To Pascal's point, the voltage regulator went out on my 9 year old 9 KW Onan at 1300 hours. The regulator is part of the main PCB......a $915.00 part. Cummins hourly rate to diagnose and replace was $135/hour and $2.30/mile.

To Onan's credit, it was the first trouble I have had out the unit.
 
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