Resolved - Engine troubles

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Rick D

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Out today on my way to a marina on CT river for the night when I hit a good size wave. Maybe coincidence but when I crashed through wave the alarm on my starboard engine went off. Put engine in neutral but kept it running and alarm continued sounding so I cut the engine. When trying to restart, I can hear the little gear on the starter spinning up real fast but not engaging the flywheel. Limped back to port on one drive and limited steering.

First, I didn't look at my gauges beforing cutting engine so don't know what temp or oil pressure were but minutes earlier they were fine. Next, what would hitting the wave hard like that damage...or just coincidence?
I kicked the key over repeatedly in attempt to engage fly wheel but no luck...just get the fast spinning sound.

Ideas on cause?
--Rick
 
You might want to repost this on the engines forum.
 
Hit (rap it fairly hard) the starter with a hammer, while someone is trying to engage the start button or key. I have a feeling the Bendix is stuck on the starter. As to the cause of the alarm I have no idea until you get her started again.
Bill
 
Sounds like water ingestion hydro locked the engine..
Pull the spark plugs before cranking.
 
The alarm for my 92 Merc has 3 sensors: oil pressure, engine water temp, and gear lube reservoir for the out drive. The alarm uses a RC, resistor–capacitor, circuit. It takes about 7-10 seconds for it to charge the capacitor to turn on the alarm. If the alarm went off immediately after hitting the wave, my guess is that something happened prior to the wave. I am not sure what year you engine is, your alarm system may be different.
 
I would could agree however the starter would engage and lock up, it is not. The starter's Bendix (gear) is not engaging the flywheel. He also shut down a running engine.
Try what I said on the starter you have nothing to lose. Just don't hit it hard enough to break the starter housing, that would take a slamming hard hit.
Bill
 
Hitting the starter with a 3 pound hand sledge may get the starter to engage. Depending on how much room you have to work in and around, I'm not certain I would want to be laying next to the engine and it started up. I would unhook the ignition wire so it doesn't unexpectedly start up.
 
Not hydro locked as engine was running after the wave...would not start back up.
I'm hoping for a bad starter and not a broken flywheel.
Already unbolted hot water heater prepping to get at the starter. Still need to dissemble about 1/2 dozen things to get water heater out.
F...ing hate boats right now.
 
Get an extension, a piece of wood or a pipe put it against the starter body where the Bendix is and tap it while trying to start the engine. It might be enough to unstick the stuck Bendix and get the engine running.
Boats can be fun most of the time funny how they seem to act up when you are on a trip?
Bill
 
Sorry I missed the part that it was running and you did a precautionary shutdown.
 
If bendix is extended, it's engaged with the flywheel. It's possible the bendix gear is spun which could allow the bendix to be engaged but starter spin. Also could be solenoid linkage not extending the bendix. There are a couple different solenoid/bendix engaging systems.
 
Ok , here's a verrry long shot....Any chance a temp or o.p. alarm switch wire was jolted loose and momentarily shorted the starter solenoid to engage the starter with engine running and damaged the Bendix , pinion gear or flywheel teeth for a finale? As you say, hopefully not.

Did the alarm turn off when you 1st went to restart or subsequently with key ON? If you get it started watch the oil pressure gauge.
 
Sandy, you lost me. The sensors work by sending a ground up to the alarm. The starter works by by sending 12v to the soleniod. A sensor wire contacting the starter wire would not set off the alarm nor would it engage the the starter.
 
If you go to work on the Starter, it may be the classic "Delco-Remy" type. Big, heavy, direct drive, motor much larger than the Solenoid on top of it. That motor has Field Windings. You can get virtually any part for those motors. Solenoid, solenoid repair kit, motor brushes, bearing bushings, and the drive aka "Bendix." You can also have the modern starter called High Torque, Gear Reduction, or Permanent Magnet. Instead of field coils it uses magnets, and the motor part is much smaller. Still bigger than the solenoid, but small, and the starter is much lighter come installation time. What I've found, though, is many less parts seemed to be available. The drive/Bendix stuck on ours, didn't extend. I took it off the boat and freed it up, but thought I'd have a shop do a refurb on it while it was off, and I really wanted a new Bendix. All he said he could get was a solenoid, no other parts. He cleaned it all up and it's worked the last 5 seasons or so.
I guess I could see repairing a Delco-type starter in otherwise good condition, but for me, those PM starters are every bit as dependable and SO much easier to handle in tight spaces doing the R&R work.
 
Thanks to all. Will likely work the next couple if evenings to get the starter out. Once it's out because its such a HUGE PITA to get access to, I think the best bet is to install a new one rather than repair a 16 year old unit. I do not want to have go work on this unit again anytime in the near future...and new can be had for about $90 or so.
 
Two problems almost never occur at the same time. The starter is not the reason the engine stopped.
 
quote:
Originally posted by Rick D

Thanks to all. Will likely work the next couple if evenings to get the starter out. Once it's out because its such a HUGE PITA to get access to, I think the best bet is to install a new one rather than repair a 16 year old unit. I do not want to have go work on this unit again anytime in the near future...and new can be had for about $90 or so.

Click to expand...

Rick I can't believe you haven't tried hitting the starter/ solenoid? I'm not suggesting this as a permenent fix just to get the 2nd engine going.
When getting a replacement starter make sure you get an ignition protected starter.
Bill
 
quote:
Originally posted by Pa Mikee

Sandy, you lost me. The sensors work by sending a ground up to the alarm. The starter works by by sending 12v to the soleniod. A sensor wire contacting the starter wire would not set off the alarm nor would it engage the the starter.

Click to expand...


Granted , this is the product of a tired but fervid mechanical imagination.

But the alarm switch wire still has 12 v+ potential (from the buzzer) which is happy to use a ground( same battery circuit) anywhere it can find it to set off the alarm. It ...might... also be able to have the same effect as momentarily turning the ign sw to Start if that wire bounced off say the remote starter relay small + terminal on it's way to the engine block . This may be thinking outside the room let alone the box ....

Before Rick mentioned the starter issue, I had considered the possibility of oil pump pick-up strainer pipe falling off or the perhaps somewhat too full oil getting aerated in the topsy-turvy event, but the alarm and starter issue should be related.

I think I would 1st use substantial jumpers to the starter solenoid and engine ground before removing the starter , just to make sure better connections won't shoot the Bendix out. But I expect you will need to pull the starter and inspect & test the solenoid/Bendix/pinion gear.
 
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